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Joined: 11 Nov 2012 Posts: 15 Location: MSN

I loaded up a bunch of 2 1/2" shells (Cheddite hulls) and roll crimped them for my Parker last fall. First time roll crimping. Crimps came out looking good, but going back to that first batch to reload and finding that they are still very rolled in and many have small splits. Shells shot fine.

Bought a BPI hull conditioner and it's helping open up a bit, but not fixing.

Thinking I got the hulls too hot when crimping and it messed them up.

Any experienced roll crimpers out there able to confirm or provide other possible cause?

I am using a Gaep roll crimper.

Going to load some more up and am thinking I need to slow down the drill press. Gaep said spin it at 1300RPM while I see the BPI and Precision say go slower.

Thanks for any help!

I have a GAEP roll crimper for 24 gauge and run my drill press at 300 rpm. Most info that I've read seems to lean to "slower is better". My crimps are as good or better than 24 gauge Fiocchi factory crimps.

I use an old aluminum funnel that I've had for 40 years in my reloading kit to condition my hulls when needed - I just push it in and turn by hand - it opens the mouth just fine.

Member Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 2346 Location: West MI

GEAP's recommendation for RPM is in Italian so would be in metric RPM's not English, maybe go online and find an IT->ENG RPM conversion calculator.... Very Happy

....sorry, just kidding....I'm thinking your running a bit hot. Verbatim on FC's input here. My press doesn't have a speed indication but a guess at it's lowest setting would be in 300-400'ish range and has been producing great crimps on everything from 24-10ga hulls for a long time, I run only PR tools, they work great for me. Again agree with FC's technique; a simple funnel twisted by hand in the constricted crimp area opens up any stubborn hulls I've run into, kinda works well for fold crimps too.

Hope this info helps....

*Last edited by Gil S on Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:45 am; edited 1 time in total*

If there's a lesson to be learned from using the old hand-cranked crimpers for hand loading is that speed alone isn't the key. It's a combination of downward force and rotation that creates friction which makes the plastic pliable. The old crimpers do a beautiful job. As long as one can exert the necessary downward force, rpms don't have to be high. My experience is that roll crimping shortens hull life more so than fold crimping.

Joined: 11 Nov 2012 Posts: 15 Location: MSN

Fly and Putz - thanks for the input. Guessing I am melting the hulls at the high speed. I will slow it down and see how it goes.

2 questions:
1. Do you use any lube or other substance on the hull or roll crimper? I have heard of some people using triflow or similar on the roll crimp tool.

2. How long does it take you to form a crimp on a shell? Are you applying uniform pressure the whole time, or light pressure at start to warm hull followed by more pressure to form crimp?

Good thing is that I have had success in past getting nice crimps. Just want to figure out the best way to ensure my hulls aren't all one and done.

Joined: 11 Nov 2012 Posts: 15 Location: MSN

Gil

Very good point! I haven't used one of the old hand crank crimpers, but you are 100% that you wouldn't be running a very high RPM with one and still get a good crimp.

Going to load some up this afternoon and see what dropping the RPM does for crimp release.

Here's my collection of roll crimpers. Depicted are 20, 12, 10, and 16. All but the 12 are harder to find. Second photo is 28 and .410. These are available from Italy but Siarm.com hasn't figured out how to ship to the US. My daughter got them for me when she was teaching in France last year.
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Member Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 2346 Location: West MI

Re 1; I've never used lubricants, although others who've posted on similar RC threads around here do, whatever floats your boat. I've found preheating by holding a propane torch or cigarette lighter on the spinning RC tool until it feels about as warn as a hot cup of coffee helps off the bat then the crimping process maintains the tool heat. With preheating, all goes pretty smoothly during the entire session start to finish.

Re 2; a couple/few seconds, light pressure or delaying for just moment then firm.

*Last edited by skeettx on Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:03 pm; edited 1 time in total*

When I use my drill press, I use a intermediate pully to slow down the
quill speed

Or just hand feed Very Happy

Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 1460 Location: Eagle, Nebraska

I use the BPI hull conditioner, have a wooden one too you can use by hand if not needing much.
The BPI has worked for most part for me, a few may have problem on the MEC, but can fiddle around and get wad in okay.

Takes a little bit with the conditioner, heating up the plastic again, works better has the metal heats up a bit too, the first ones might be slower, but after a few, it works ok.

I have a hand crimper, but usually just use cordless drill with roll crimper head.

Mike, what happened to the optional hamster wheel? Very Happy

SURE is fun to have neat toys Very Happy

Now I am shooting in such quantity that I mostly pie crimp everything.
I am shooting about a flat of ammo each week and loving retirement.

Dove season is now about finished for us, heading to Mexico on Monday on a mission trip, then back and getting set up for duck season.

Mike

*Last edited by Doggai on Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:19 am; edited 2 times in total*

For my plastic hulls I touch the mouth end on a warm household iron set up near my loading table, then drop it into the hand driven roll crimper. For my paper roll crimps I also touch the mouth on the iron for a count of 1 thousand one, 1 thousand two and then roll it. I find that 4-6 revolutions of the hand crimper does a satisfactory job. Comes out satisfactorily for my standard. Put em in the gun and they go boom. Good enough for non government work.

Michelangelo I am not.

Skeetx, Why do you roll crimp in the bathroom? Or, maybe I dont want to know.

Member Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 2346 Location: West MI

Sorry if this jumps the tracks a bit, gotta know since I don't own any hand op RC devices; are they mounted so the shell sits right side up? I.e. what prevents the stuffings spilling out when crimping, what looks like, the shell lying on its side??

I can see maybe the OSC holding against/under an old crimp, but, what if a new hull?