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*Last edited by brdhnt on Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:55 pm; edited 1 time in total*

I have a situation with one of my hunting friends and I would like some input from the knowledgeable members of this board.

Here's the situation.

I have a good friend of mine who is a surgeon. He is a great guy and loves to hunt. He was raised in a country where hunting was prohibited and did not get exposed to hunting until he started hunting with his wife's family in the 1980's. Since then he has become a very successful surgeon and his primary focus is on big game and he has had the means to hunt big game on several continents.

Until him and I met up about a year ago, he had never experienced bird hunting that was not on a "put and take" preserve. He still has a tendency to think of bird hunting as guided hunts similar to his big game hunts, but we are changing that. This year he started shooting skeet and sporting clays from low gun to help make him a better field shot and he is always calling me for advice on gear and birds.

The problem is his 13 year old son. He wants to get his son involved in hunting and his son is a spoiled, self-centered, ill mannered mama's boy. The kid is marginally safe with firearms, but his total lack of inattention and his total whining attitude if he doesn't get his way really pi**es me off.

Last year we took him quail hunting. The birds were skittish and moving and the first covey we got into, my dogs worked for over 200 yards before they finally locked down. His Dad wanted him to get the flush, so I agreed and we held back. Despite my telling him to walk in from the side where the dogs could see him, he walked right up the butt of one of the dogs. This made the dog skittish and she broke point. When she broke point, the birds flushed. When his Dad corrected him about walking in on the dogs (which his Dad had just learned also), the son's reply was "Well his f****** dogs jumped the birds before I was ready to shoot."

I was so mad that I just walked off because I truly didn't trust myself to speak. During the course of the day, he stuck the barrels of his Dad's Diana grade Superposed into the ground so he could answer his cell phone and then got pi**ed when I told him to open it and check the barrels.

To make a long story short, by the end of that day, I was glad to get rid of him. That evening another friend called to see how we had done on birds and I told him that I never knew a day of bird hunting could be frustrating, but this one was. Mad

This morning we were supposed to go dove hunting and got rained out. I had put up with the kid's whining and boop-beep-beep-doop video game for over an hour in the truck. Evil or Very Mad

On the way back into town, my friend called his wife and she met us for breakfast. It reaffirmed that this kid is a "mama's boy." He hung on his mother in a matter that I consider very inappropriate for a 13 year old. The kid also has no table manners or manners, period. He would constantly interrupt conversations, reach across the table instead of asking for things and just be a royal pain in the rear.

My question is, what, if anything should I say to his Dad? I enjoy hunting with the father and he is a good companion, but I really don't want to have to put up with the son anymore.

I believe in passing on the heritage and have taken a lot of young kids and even older folks hunting for the first time and never had a situation like this.

Any suggestions? I know what I would do, but since he's not my kid I can't do it. What should I say to the Dad?

Thanks

Terry
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Louis Chevrolet History

Member Joined: 15 Mar 2005 Posts: 358 Location: Houston

Tough call and very delicate situation, but you've led the horse to water, and he (the kid) won't drink. I guess I'd say to the Dad that the kid's not quite ready to hunt, won't fully enjoy it, etc., etc. Depending on how the conversation goes, you could also get into safety, well-being of your dogs, etc.

All this to be couched, I would suggest, in terms of concern for the kid. He's not into it, not enjoying it, not ready for it--whatever fits.

Again, hard to diagnose the situation from afar, but maybe these ideas will help.

Member Joined: 13 Feb 2006 Posts: 110 Location: California

Wow, that is tough! It may well be the little so and so got bored, and will not want to go again. My luck would be he loved it, and can't wait till the next time, when he would likely shoot anything that moves - like your dogs, or you, or his dad.

I believe I would tell Daddy that junior can't come again. You may lose a friend, but better than someone getting hurt. One alternative, which Junior would probably never condone, is letting him go without a firearm until he learns enough to be trusted.

Good luck.

Stan

Member Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 398 Location: S Fl

It's counter-intuitive, and in the short term, likely to ruffle a lot of feathers, BUT, I think you'll both be better off over the long haul if you tell him the truth.
I would lay it out to him just as you did here. Tell him how much his friendship means to you, and how pained you are to have to bring up the subject, etc.

I recently lost a good friend beacuse my wife and I (and our kids) couldn't put up with another minute of their kids.
It's a shame, but life goes on.

Pete

Member Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Posts: 1522 Location: NH

It's not a tough situation, not a tight spot etc. The kid would NOT hunt with me or over my dogs ever again. He is an accident waiting to happen. If Dad can't accept that, he can hunt with someone else too.

I hunt to enjoy myself, the people with me and my dogs. If something in the mix is screwing up my enjoyment, it gets removed. The kid goes.

Then again, it's been said that I'm not very compasionate or forgiving. Oh well, life goes on.

*Last edited by brdhnt on Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:55 pm; edited 1 time in total*

TJC,

That's why I posted this. I have been told that "tact and diplomacy" are words that are definitely NOT in my vocabulary and I need to be tactful and diplomatic in this situation.

The neat thing about the Dad is that since he has never been exposed to this type of hunting before, he's like a kid every time we go out and I really enjoy his company. The kid is marginally safe with guns as far as muzzle control, but there is so much more to gun safety that I don't hink this kid will ever learn.

TB
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Zx14 Vs Hayabusa

Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 87 Location: Traverse City, MI

No pat answers, but I would start with banning the games and especially the cell phone in the field. Tell the dad that the games make you uneasy and the phone is the worst kind of etiquette there is. We go hunting to get away from those things. Banning the electronics may drive the kid away. Laughing

Also, insist that the kid completes a hunter safety course to protect your dogs. The kid will probably not want to take the course either and maybe quit hunting. Laughing

Good luck

I'm going to have to agree with Natty. This child is not mature enough to be handling a firearm safely. He sounds like he may not want to be there or has an issue with his father. He may improve in the next several years. Strange as it is, some boys don't mature enough to handle firearms responsibly until they are in their late teens. Yet some are responsible at 8 years old or even earlier. I would tell his father, in a concerned polite way, that his son is not yet mature enough to handle and carry firearms responsibly. He may need to take another Hunter Ed course with a ornery instructer like me. Good luck.

Joined: 02 Mar 2006 Posts: 12 Location: Lubbock TX

Bottom line is that hunting should be enjoyable & it sounds like there is no way you can enjoy yourself with the kid around.

Telling the dad would be the best way to good short & simple is the best way to go.

If you wanted to dance around make your invitation only to the dad as you only have room for "one" more hunter. Then invite folks you enjoy to hunt with to fill the other spots.

Good Luck

Member Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 1257 Location: Nebraska

Sounds like a born and bred, typical Texan, what's the big deal? (Couldn't resist, that was for Wingshooter's benefit!)

Honestly, I'd like to hear the result of whatever course you decide to take, that's a very tough situation. I don't think there's a textbook out there that could set up for a pre-determined outcome, there are many moving parts here and I think a lot will depend on the father's acceptance of what you discuss. I'd NOT go out with either one of them again until everything's settled. You've got my genuine concern.

kgb

*Last edited by brdhnt on Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:55 pm; edited 1 time in total*

Dad and son did a Hunter Safety course last year. Dad has alos brought him out to the skeet field a few times. I am a past HE and Firearms Instructor and the kid is not "unsafe" with a firearm, but he definitely does not "respect" a firearm.

Believe me, I do not tolerate unsafe gun handling from anyone. The only unsafe thing I have ever seen the kid do is the bit with the barrels into the ground. It's the whole thing I guess. he doesn't respect his parents so how can I expect him to respect anything else. His Dad is a teaching surgeon and is a demanding teacher of his surgery students. I know that sometimes a Dad is not the best teacher of a child, so last year when his Dad was trying to teach him to shoot, I had Dad step back and I tried to work with the kid. I din't like his "non-respectful" attitude then and I like it even less now.

I've had to deal with kids like this before, but I was always in a position of authority to do so as either an instructor, DI, law enforcement training officer, etc. If I had this kid in one of my classes, this attitude would have been immediately and drastically addressed. However not being in one of those positions with him is what makes it difficult. His Dad tolerates stuff from the son that I know he would never tolerate from one of his students.

From all of the advice I have received I think I will wait till his Dad and I have a cigar/scotch session and tell him what I see as an experienced hunter and why it bothers me and that I will continue to hunt with the Dad but if he brings the son along, he has to understand that if it is with me and my dogs, I will be in charge of the entire hunt and if his son continues with his attitude, I will take the gun away from him and send him back to the truck and take his video game and cell phone away and just let him sit. If the Dad understands, so be it. If not, well, I have other friends to hunt with and I can find quail in lots of other places.

Thanks for all of the advice.

Terry
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Motorcycle Tires

I'm with TJC totally on this one.

I would print off this entire thread, invite him to the local coffee shop for a cup of joe, and after telling him how much I enjoy HIS hunting company, hand him this complete thread and ask him to read it in it's entirety.

I won't put my dog or myself in harms way intentionally. And that is exactly what you would be doing if you continue to hunt with this poorly trained young fellow. Besides that, time off to enjoy hunting is too few and far between, to waste with company that does not add to that enjoyment.

This just is not that hard of a decision. It just may be a hard decision for your friend though. Good luck.

Member Joined: 13 Feb 2006 Posts: 110 Location: California

I will rexpectfully disagree with TJC and Natty about this being a tough situation BUT only insofar as the loss of a genuine friend is very likely here.

The kid - not one bit of concern for him, he is out. Just a very small opening to allow him to prove he has matured enough to join his Dad in the field. Skeet field, Hunter Safety, etc. are possible starts, but I think we all agree the little smart Twisted Evil

will never go that route.

Member Joined: 02 Feb 2006 Posts: 602 Location: western pa

Not a tough call at all. Anybody insults my dogs for no good reason never hunts with me again. The kids dad ,maybe, but dad had better dam well figure out that the kid owes me a direct and serious appology if he is serious about hunting or associating with me again. I don't envy your situation and am thankful that I've never had to deal with anything like that. I'm also a hunter saftey instructor and inattention and snotty attitude can lead to an irreversable action on down the road. Good Luck with it.