16ga.com Forum Index
Author Message
<  16ga. Guns  ~  What's the difference between an A-5 in 16 g. and a Sweet 16
MattyD
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:04 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 4

OK crew...newbie here. Need someone to educate me as to the difference between an A-5 in 16 gauge and a Sweet 16? Thanks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dannypratt
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:47 am  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 722
Location: Napoleon, MI

MattyD,

Ok here you go.

The Browning 16 ga. A-5 is what they call a "standard" weight, usually around 7.25-7.75 pounds, mechanically identical ( except for some older variations with shorter 2 9/16" chamber ) as the Sweet 16, cosmetically it normally has a blued trigger, however I have seen maybe 2-3 that have gold triggers. It sayd "sixteen" on the reciever. These were in production form 1903-1964 from Blegium according to my 2006 Blue Book.

The Browning Sweet 16 A-5 is lighter in weight by up to .75 of a pound than the "standard" and is clearly marked Sweet 16 on the side of the reciever. Some early models are in 2 9/16" chamberings.It has a gold trigger and you will rarely ( more like never ) find one that has a blued trigger, however I have seen 1 like this at a gun show, and it simply could have been so worn that all the gold was gone, nad the owner had simply blued it, the rest of the gun looked awful too. These had been in production from 1937-1975 from Belgium, then they were brought back in Japanese production form 1988-1992.

They are both fantastic and mechanically identical in operation. The Sweet 16 will always bring a premium over the Standard Weight model. But I find a ribless Standard Weight model to carry wonderfully.

I could write about this all day, but I have to go to church Smile
-danny
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CitoriFeather16
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 7:58 am  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 989
Location: Las Vegas

I hope Jeff Mull jumps in here, he is a wealth of information on the A-5's. AND I hope he posts some pics of his collection. Especially the English gripped ones he has. I believe the Sweet 16 has 20ga. wood and I know the barrell ring is drilled out to reduce weight.

Dannypratt: here is a pic of my (my dad's) Sweet 16 manufactured in late 1950 with the blue trigger.

Matt

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MattyD
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:58 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 4

Gnag,
Thanks for the info so far.
Also would like to know the difference between the Belgium made and Jap made..at least as it relates to mfg dates and qualities.
Additionally, would the Sweet 16 have been made with factory choke tubes? Didn't know if they were made that late to come this way.
Thanks.
MattyD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dannypratt
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:05 am  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 722
Location: Napoleon, MI

MattyD,

Only the Japanese guns were made with the choke tubes, they were Invector style, just like the current production Citori.
I personally feel that there is some difference between the Belgium and Japanese guns, the Japanese appear a little heavier to me, but i feel they are quite nice though. I really do feel the Belgiums are "finer" though, it seems there is just a little more hand fitting of the wwod to metal components and the overall "feel" I definently like more.

I think they are both great guns, for the cost difference and strictly for hunting , not collecting, i would pick the Japanese gun, more flexible with the choke tubes.
that's my two cents,
probbaly worth one,
-danny
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dannypratt
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:06 am  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 722
Location: Napoleon, MI

citoriF16,

Thta's a nice Belgium, very interesting w/ the black trigger!-dannypratt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MattyD
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:21 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 4

Were the Jap models made with the round knob or were they all square?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dannypratt
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 12:48 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 722
Location: Napoleon, MI

MattyD,
All Japanese Sweet 16's had round knobs, but they are a slightly different round knob from the Belgium style. Japanese models have a simpler checkering pattern, but it very nicely executed to say the least. Japanese production of other gauge A-5's have flat knobs, but all the gauges switched in the mid-80's to the current round knob style as seen on the Citori Lightning models.
-dannypratt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Square Load
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:54 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 711
Location: Flagstaff, AZ

Along with the holes drilled in the barrel ring which has been mentioned, Browning removed wood from the stock under the butt plate on the Sweet 16's. Don't know if they did anything else to reduce weight.

Have a Browning sales brochure from '53 saying the standard model 16 weighed 7# 5oz. and the Sweet 16 weighed 6# 12oz. I removed some wood from under the butt on my standard model and it now weighs 7# 1oz. It also moved the center of balance forward and it seems to balance better. Mine has a plain 27 1/2" barrel and it felt too light in the muzzle before I did this.

Dennis
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jeff Mulliken
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:03 am  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 781

A subject near and dear to my heart. A lot of good information was posted, but a few errors and ommissions too.

First, not all Sweet Sixteens have the words engraved on the side of the receiver. In fact none of them from start up to 1948 were engraved. I have seen some trade hands at very low price because the owner did not know it was "Sweet". It pays to know how to spot the unengraved ones...

I have never seen a factory supplied gold trigger on a standard gun and have never seen a factory blued trigger on a Sweet. If you see one it was probably replaced at some point.

Regarding weight differences, drilling the barrel ring was the easy part of making a Sweet. Sweets had a lot of metal removed from inside the receiver and trigger group, the hammers were drilled etc etc etc. The "solid" ribs on Sweet barrels were a different width (narrower) to reduce weight.

It was a lot of work to take off a few ounces. Here is a link to look at 2 trigger groups, sorry about the quality of the pics but some of the differences are clear. One group is from a standard 12 ga from the 1920's the other is from a 1951 Sweet Sixteen. Look closely at the dished out areas where metal was removed from the triger guard/tang.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jeffmulliken/detail?.dir=40abre2&.dnm=9bf9re2.jpg&.src=ph

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jeffmulliken/detail?.dir=40abre2&.dnm=b914re2.jpg&.src=ph

Regarding stocks, yes the Sweets were hollowed, but there were also a lot of factory hollowed stocks on standard guns too. I have a standard sixteen from the first year of production with it's factory stock and it's hollow. Yes the 20 ga and 16 ga stocks are the same and can be swapped back and forth.

I have been inside of both and Japanese guns are nicely made. But they definately feel heavier. I have not collected data to support it but we might try it here. One reason they feel heavier is the forends, on Jap guns they are a ton thicker and are heavy and clubby. the Belgian foreends are svelt and sweet in the hand. I MUCH prefer Belgian forends, but they are more likely to crack than the Jap ones.

I think the Standard 16 is an overlooked jewel. They are a bargain and particularly with a non ribbed barrel are wonderful handlers. Just make sure you know if your buying a 2 9/16" gun or a 2 3/4" gun before you write a check.

If you can load your own, save a couple hundred $, buy a 2 9/16" gun and load your own short 16's.

Whew....

Jeff Mulliken (aka Jeff Mull)[img][/img][img][/img]


Last edited by Jeff Mulliken on Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:22 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mod11rem
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:02 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 117
Location: Jonesboro, AR

Jeff, the 16 I referred to in my recent post about W TX dove hunting, was made in 1957 and the browning page I got the info from indicated that it was a Sweet 16 Ser no. A18972 and the Browning name and engraving on the side of the receiver is gold colored. The top of the receiver is a rough Matte type finish that I have never seen before on any Browning. However, "Sweet Sixteen" appears nowhere on the gun. It shoots and handles well like any other of these guns. Any info on that finish on the receiver and whether it's a sweet or not??? thanks mod11rem

_________________
If I can't throw lead from a 16, I'd just as soon throw rocks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Jeff Mulliken
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:19 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 781

Mod11rem,

Is the serial number on the side of the receiver or the bottom by the loading port?

Jeff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
662
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:36 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 358
Location: Houston

mod11,

The A prefix indicates Sweet Sixteen models made in 1957 and 1958 (but not ALL Sweet Sixteens in those years had the A prefix, I don't think).

The Blue Book Serialization says the A numbers ranges from 1 to 10900, so yours may be an anomaly, but none of this information is airtight.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mod11rem
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:27 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 20 Nov 2005
Posts: 117
Location: Jonesboro, AR

The serial number is on the side of the receiver below and to the left of the Browning logo.

_________________
If I can't throw lead from a 16, I'd just as soon throw rocks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
dannypratt
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:21 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 722
Location: Napoleon, MI

mod11rem,
You've got a Remington made "American Browning". A true Browning, but made in America during World War II by Remington to Browning specs. I've got one of these in 12 and what a nice gun. I personally really like the matte top reciever, it looks nice and is fully functional. Your gun is probably a 1942-47, somewhere in that area, not sure of the exact, but if I dug around I could tell you.
-dannypratt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
All times are GMT - 7 Hours

View next topic
View previous topic
Page 1 of 2
Goto page 1, 2  Next
16ga.com Forum Index  ~  16ga. Guns

Post new topic   Reply to topic


 
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB and NoseBleed v1.09