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< 16ga. Ammunition & Reloading ~ Does low pressure always result in low recoil? |
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Posted:
Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:55 pm
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Joined: 27 Feb 2014
Posts: 45
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Sounds like a silly question, but I want to know the answer. My assumption is yes low pressure alway results in low recoil assuming the gun being fired is the same weight. Is this assumption accurate? |
_________________ Bang Bang |
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Posted:
Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:33 pm
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Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 3177
Location: NCWa
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No.
recoil is a result of stuff in the barrel pushing back on the gun. A higher pressure generally would result in an equal load pushing harder, but the load is more important than the pressure. |
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Posted:
Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:30 am
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Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Posts: 1498
Location: the Moosehorn
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There is NO relationship between pressure and recoil. Recoil is mass of ejecta and velocity. It is the force that flys rockets. |
_________________ ALWAYS wear the safety glasses
If you take Cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like Prunes than Rhubarb does ----G.M/ |
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Posted:
Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:50 am
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Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 325
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The confusion comes about because it would seem that high pressure loads would produce higher velocities. But that high pressure might only last a few milliseconds. The low pressure load may have a higher velocity because although it's peak pressure is lower, it's average pressure is higher. |
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Posted:
Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:53 am
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Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Posts: 1498
Location: the Moosehorn
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NO
The only factors are Mass And Velocity! If I move an ounce of lead 1000 fps the force of recoil is say X If I move an ounce of lead at 10000 fps the force of recoil is 10X .end of story For more complicated math look this up on Hodgdons site |
_________________ ALWAYS wear the safety glasses
If you take Cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like Prunes than Rhubarb does ----G.M/ |
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Posted:
Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:01 am
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Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 325
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I agree--recoil is solely a product of mass and velocity. But lower pressure loads often produce higher velocities and that can be confusing. |
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Posted:
Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:02 am
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Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Posts: 1498
Location: the Moosehorn
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Of course |
_________________ ALWAYS wear the safety glasses
If you take Cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like Prunes than Rhubarb does ----G.M/ |
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Posted:
Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:01 am
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Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 1338
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Last edited by mike campbell on Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Posted:
Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:44 am
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Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 3177
Location: NCWa
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One out of five unemployed, and everyone wants to be a physicist |
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Posted:
Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:02 pm
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Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 1338
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Last edited by mike campbell on Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Posted:
Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:14 pm
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Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Posts: 1498
Location: the Moosehorn
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Just trying to Keep it simple you are right about the 100x and now I remember that part. thanks |
_________________ ALWAYS wear the safety glasses
If you take Cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like Prunes than Rhubarb does ----G.M/ |
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Posted:
Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:36 pm
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Joined: 15 Jun 2010
Posts: 1358
Location: Twin Cities, MN
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Here is a discussion of this subject.
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=405370
I am trained as a scientist, but not an engineer. If I understand it correctly there is a relationship between pressure and recoil, but it is neither linear nor exponential and the peak in pressure when a shell is fired occurs for such a short amount of time it is impossible for humans to perceive this. I, and others, have done trials (not controlled enough to call it an experiment) wherein I loaded 2 shells with all the same components to the same velocity, except I used different powders. In this case International Clays and Clays. No one was able to tell which shell they were shooting, including the guys who claimed they could tell these powders apart and that was why they loaded International. These folks did not believe my results. So, pressure can affect recoil, but most, if not all, of the time we can't feel it. Clear as mud. None of this will change anyone's mind.
When Longshot powder first came out a friend loaded up some 1 1/8oz 1400 fps loads at around 9,000 psi. As it was the same pressure as his 1145 fps target load he ASSUMED the recoil would be the same. Suffice it to say he could not give those loads away as the recoil was horrific. Some guys who tried them on long duck tower shots claimed that they put no lead on the targets because the shells were so fast. I didn't even bother to show them the math that at 40-50 yards their forward allowance (is that better than the dreaded lead word?) was only decreased by 4-6 inches, not yards.
Regards,
Jeff |
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Posted:
Thu Nov 20, 2014 6:37 am
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Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 2067
Location: canandaigua - western n.y. (formerly deerhunter)
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Jeff , I THINK you are saying the same as Mike . If you load same veloc/payload load , but change the powder as you did ,vel stayed the same therefore the PERCIEVED recoil should have been the same . Actual calc recoil is probably a little different and you already know the pressure changed. |
_________________ Molly sez AArrrooooooah ! |
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Posted:
Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:31 am
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Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 1946
Location: Central CT
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NO NEVER, one has nothing to do with the other!!! |
_________________ Mark |
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Posted:
Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:52 pm
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Joined: 15 Jun 2010
Posts: 1358
Location: Twin Cities, MN
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I have a friend who is a mechanical engineer who is playing with some of this math. I do believe that recoil is related to pressure, but it is a little more complicated and much more subtle than KE=0.5 M x V x V. DC - did you look at the Shotgun World thread? I might have to sharpen a pencil and look at some of this stuff myself. I would think that the artillery guys figured out a lot of this stuff decades ago. Maybe I can find someone at ATK who knows this math.
Regards,
Jeff |
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