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Joined: 09 Dec 2012 Posts: 691

I am contemplating getting a Mec Sizemaster. I have not made the final decision though. I realize that for the quantity of shooting that I do, that factory shells would be less expensive.

My question is, how much better can I get than factory if I load for myself ? (realistically) for hunting purposes.

I mainly hunt squirrel, rabbit and preserve pheasants. For the big fox squirrels, I use #5's or #4's. At this point, mostly 4's.

For rabbits, I use #6's but 5's wouldn't be too off base for longer shots, I actually could do it all with 5's. I have been buying Fiocchi Golden Pheasant #5 loads, but I have to order them online as no one carries them in the area I live in.

The reasoning behind the Sizemaster, is the resizing of course. I have a few 16ga guns that I like to rotate carrying and would want the reloads to all be within factory spec size wise.

I have to say that reloading non-toxic also is of interest. With the right loads in my pocket (read that legal) there is the opportunities for stalking up on waterfowl onshore at one of the areas I squirrel hunt at. I was actually within 20 feet of some geese that I could have taken had I the correct license and ammo.

Monetary payback for me would be measured in years, I realize that. But I do enjoy crafting my own ammo. I load for a multitude of BPCR cartridges with bullets that I cast myself.

Building precision ammo is interesting to me.

I have been saving the Fiocchi, Federal and Remington shells that I use when hunting, so I am starting to accumulate once fired hulls. I do realize that I will either have to beg borrow or steal some more if I do go down this path so that I have enough of 1 kind to make a repeatable setup.

or simply switch over to new hulls.

thanks !
dc

Member Joined: 06 Nov 2005 Posts: 328

The sizemaster has a collet resizer. so resizing would be no problem between you different guns. Just resize to maximum which allows smallest chambered gun to load.

If you don't shoot a lot, then saving money won't be a lot either.
I would saw if you shoot no more than a flat of shellls a year, then I wouldn't reload. As you know you can usually find what you want online. Although I have had trouble finding 4s and 5s.

Member Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Posts: 989 Location: Las Vegas

I wouldn't worry about saving $$. The true value of reloading the 16 is you can tailor a load to meet your exact requirements from skeet to waterfowl. And the sizemaster is an excellent choice. I've had one in 16ga for years and just got another in 20ga. I was amazed at how few adjustments I had to make before I was turning out perfectly crimped reloads.

Matt

Joined: 09 Dec 2012 Posts: 691

So back to what I really need to know, can I build loads superior to mass produced shells ?

I believe that the answer is yes.

I know how to build cartridges that are accurate in Sharps rifles to 1000 yds, but I don't have a clue about shotgun reloading.

That is why I ask about whether, with work, I can surpass factory performance (not velocity but patterning).

Member Joined: 06 Nov 2005 Posts: 328

yes.
The one thing that will help out patterns over the cheap shells is using Hard vs Chilled shot.

Hard shot will have more antimony. the hard shot will not deform as much as chilled.

But be careful and do some homework. Not all brands of hard or magnum shot is the same.

One of the things I like about reloading is patterning shells.

Joined: 09 Dec 2012 Posts: 691

Thank you.

You have to remember that not all shotguns like all loads, new or handloaded.

The advice to use magnum sot is a good one.

Then load several different loads and see what works best. I wouldn't buy a bunch of any one component until I found the loads that work best in my shotgun, especially since you are going to use #4 shot. Not all 16 Gauge shotguns do well with #4 shot, so you probably will have to experiment, to find the right combination of components.

Member Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 3438 Location: Illinois

The shells you load will beat ANY factory load after a little trial and error-you can adjust velocity,shot/powder drop,wad pressure,etc to tailor that load to what you want----And at a reduced price---

Joined: 09 Dec 2012 Posts: 691

Once again, thanks to the rest of you.

As far as nbr 4's go, if I get a good consistent (velocity, pattern, etc) nbr 5 load, I can skip the 4's.

The only reason for the 4's is that I can drive 10 minutes and buy a box and go hunting the next day when I run/ran out (like I did the other day). Dick's Sporting Goods carries 4's and 6's here where I live, Walmart carries 6's and a couple other local stores carry 4's and 6's in Federal, Remington and Winchester High Velocity Game Loads.

It is the nbr 5's that I have trouble getting. 5's are actually the best for my purposes.

7 1/2's are widely available in this area. I have never had an issue finding 16ga shells for hunting other than 5's.

Member Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 2346 Location: West MI

"7 1/2's are widely available in this area." wow, must be nice, where exactly is that area?? Only thing on the shelves around here are #8 & #6's... Rolling Eyes

After years of re-loading everything (24-10ga) with 600's, recently converted a used SizeMaster that came in a bundle purchase from 12 to 16 and I'm in heaven. Always like the single stages over progressive in quickly recognizing an out of spec shell or miss dropped component but now that I'm in a club shooting (in my eyes) alot of shells, this SM with auto primer drop and collet resizing (feels like a 600 with a turbo unit installed) is nice. If I were not shooting formal targets (6-10 boxes a week) staying with plain 600's &/or roll crimping all my hunting loads would still be fine regarding volume/output.

Saving $, with Cabelas (Herters) and some local sales retailing shells at ~$5-6/box and comparing current component costs realistically there is not much of a monetary gain. I like making stuff and the excitement of smashing a clay or biting down on a chunk of meat with a pellet in it that I put there from start to finish makes the experience that much more "homemade" or complete in my world.

If you are focused on justifying reloading costs, try the calculator in this link and see how the numbers play out for you.

https://www.mecshootingsports.com/t-CostBenefitsSavingsCalculator.aspx

Quality/diversity; reloading a benefit? IMO, no question, when I can load from 1oz target up to 2 1/4oz Turkey or stacked buckshot loads for my 10's at will or play with 5/8oz in the 24 & 16ga's, no question.

I'm one of those idiots that prefer hand/home made to just about everything so the enjoyment of reloading is simply an extension of that mentality.

Hope this info helps your decision to try a new hobby, I truly enjoy it, best of luck...

To reload 16 GA or not to reload 16 GA that is the .. ?
16 GA factory ammo is more expensive and limited in variety when compared to 20 or 12 gauge ammo. It has been a long time since I have bought factory ammo and as a result have no opinion as to the quality. Reloads can provide you with load variety, outstanding quality and probably a little cost savings.
In 1959 when I first began reloading, economy was my motivator and I used a Lee Loader, not to be confused with the Lee Load All. As time went on I discovered target games and now have 7 loading presses, two of which are 16 GA.
I don't shoot targets much anymore, but when I do, l use one of the 16 presses.
I'm extremely happy with my upland hunting loads as observed on my pattern board and penetration tests with 7/8 oz., 1 oz. and 1 1/8 oz. ejecta. My hunting recipes use RMC brass hulls, assembled with 56 year old Lee Loader hand tools.
Bottom line: Reload for diversity,quality with economy being a possibility and a lot of satisfaction and enjoyment. Very Happy

DRC - I haven't basically used a factory load in about a hundred yrs . The only exception usually is if I get sucked in to my mag m12/ factory 3'' . Just for your case , 20/28 powder @ 17 grns is about 1150 fps @ 6000 psi . (chedd case) . That load can go all the way up to 27grns @ 1500 fps @11k psi . One powder , one wad , any size shot you like . You don't have to make it more complicated than that . What I find is that once people know you reload 16 , stuff can just start showing up at your door . Cases , wads (still working on 2k herters wads - free) etc . Mikey C's thread on shot hardness can give you clues about shot hardness and how it may perform . Like DC said , mag is good . You don't NEED to go sizemaster , 600jr's have done all my work . I have some RST's that could use a sizemaster , but that,s been it . Most of your handloads will be a degree better than the factories - watch some skeet lgs when they shoot Estates ! Also , where else are you gonna get 5/8 oz target loads ( with good velocity and hard shot !).And handloading can keep you distracted for HOURS !

Dave, reloading is the hunting equivalent of fishing's fly tying. You might not save a lot of money, depending on how much you shoot, but once set up, you aren't at the mercy of a box store or lgs for what you need to shoot. You can load light, medium or heavy with quality components. With today's steel-headed ammunition, it pays to re-size. Now if you really want to step it up, get a Grabber--one complete shell per handle pull. Laughing

Gil

PS: I gave a 12 gauge Grabber away 15 years ago. Good heavens, didn't realize what they sell for now.

I think MEC's are over priced. I used them for years. had a ton of accessories , I was content. Then I tried a PW 375 . It changed my scope in what an acceptable shotgun round should be. I have always found good used PW machines on E-bay for $200.00 or less.

You can't argue against the quality of a PW 375, particularly since one can set up a second gauge set of dies on it. Gil