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Joined: 06 Jun 2008 Posts: 117

Charles Thankyou for the offer on the DR wads.
I started looking under the reloading bench and found a bag.
I loaded a box up Cheddite hull,20.9 Universal,DR wad, 7/8 oz of shot they crimped up nice.
We will see how they shoot we have a snow storm foot of snow so far.
Does anybody know why there are no DR 16 wads for sale anywhere?
Thanks again Charles for the offer.
Readgriff

Member Joined: 16 Nov 2006 Posts: 1338

Mike,
Guess I was half smart last year- I guess that's half not so smart. Bought PB powder when I could, but have run out of DR-16's Sad

I've seen people post here that the SG-16 is good for 7/8oz in a Federal or Cheddite, but without a filler, IMHO it's marginal at best. I spent a lot of time adjusting my 9000. Finally put in my 1oz bar, loaded a couple flats and they crimped fine.

I've had a few talks with Down Range since SEPT . It really sounds like they estimate what the requirement will be for the yr , find machine time and run them off . Right now , according to them , they should be on a machine shortly . They are NOT a high priority(Kevin's terms) . They run them when they have machine time . I think Kevin said a 2wk run . They need to up it to 3 ! what is going to be a "THING " I believe is that the Claybuster wad has an opening now to diminish the DR's turf . Kevin didn't like that when I mentioned it to him ! I do not know of a single dist that has any DR's now ... I've never been a high vol hoarder - like to get things when I need them . Have had to change my view with powder , and will up my orders with the DR . They make some of the coolest loads 16 has ever had , and my loyalty to Nick won't diminish Because I have to be patient !...( My last job at the BIG "K" , we had a one machine operation . When we'ed be down , every Joe in the place would want to know why and how long . My school buddy was my boss , and he'd say "just be vague , and ALWAYS tell them 15 minutes " Worked well for 8 yrs ! Sounds like the reply I get from Kevin !)

Member Joined: 16 Nov 2006 Posts: 1338

Joined: 28 Aug 2014 Posts: 924 Location: Eastern Tennessee

16gaDavis,

One comment I would ask you to share with Kevin is that people like me who are still new to reloading in a gauge that almost warrants the practice will work to develop loads that we like. Then I would think bulk purchases are made. At that point customers are won or lost.

In my case I was lucky enough to get 2 bags from Recobs last year to include in my load development. They had a chance to get included in my 'list' of loads.

BUT

Due to a lack of stability of supply I feel the necessity to give the claybuster model a try. I might end up liking it more or deciding that since I can find it in better stability I should choose to spend more time finding good loads with them.

Then I make a bulk supply that last me 5 years and only buy down range if I catch them on the discount rack! I hate to say it but this supply issue could not only cost them customers, but could cost them customers that buy in bulk like me.

As of right now I have purchased a healthy supply of 1-1/8 oz (remington), 1 oz (claybuster), and steel shot (VP80) wads. The SG16 & Z16 have been reduced to the discount purchase status. I have just started putting a good amount of time in to SG16S, DR, and CB0078 for 7/8 oz loads.

CHARLIE 16 - the whole thing is that we are a SMALL minority ... That's what I was getting at when I said the Claybusters can move in . If they are avail , people will try them and maybe move off by the time the Dr's are back . I sorta picked at Kevin to see what was the bigger deal there . I thought maybe target wads , but the deal was hunting wads that could be used for buckshot type loads . Home defense !!?? They have been putting DR's off since at least Sept . Their last run was probably this time last yr . I'm not buying it that they couldn't have been run since last winter ... Note : they DO have a wide variety of wads . WAAYYY too many from my perspective - lots of small runners . I do not see them helping us out !

Charlie16ga,

DownRange is in this for the money.....he doesn't sell enough 16 gauge stuff to bother with, that is why the DR16 is so expensive. He probably runs the dies once maybe twice a year.....maybe....

DownRange isn't the least bit concerned about whether you buy the DR16 in bulk or not. I would bet that the company making DownRange wads makes a lot of other plastic pieces, you couldn't hardly make a good living making shotshell wads for reloading. Making 16 Gauge stuff is a loser unless you can sell to the OEM's.

Compared to what we used to have for reloading components for the 16, we are living in high cotton, but we still don't have much pull in the market place.....I wouldn't start making threats about what you will or won't buy concerning 16 Gauge stuff.....we don't have very much control over it......and the big boys don't really give a hoot.

Joined: 28 Aug 2014 Posts: 924 Location: Eastern Tennessee

Dog,

I don't think we should threaten anyone, but make sure they understand the results of actions taken.

I ran purchasing for the largest division of a major international company and will tell you from experience that sales departments don't do a good job of analyzing the marketplace.

If you are running out of product on the shelves 1 of 2 results ARE going to happen:

1. A competitor is going to enter the marketplace and not only fill the void, but take away some of your market share.
or
2. The consumer is going to develop new ways of 'replacing' your product resulting in a reduced market share and the evil term market potential lost.

If DR is in it to make money both these scenarios actually reduce their profits. A result felt beyond that of the 16 gauge and market reputation is hindered therefore leading some consumers away from other products for other gauges.

Obviously they would never had made the wad in the first place if it was not financially feasible to do so. No one goes into pre-product of a new product if they don't envision a market or profit from it. They would also not have made it with a plan to run out or remain out of the product. They would also not plan to continue with the product if it was not profitable to do so. They have chosen to supply this market and they have chosen to continue to supply this market. That is not out of the goodness of their heart, but out of the drive for profit.

I am sure claybuster would not be developing a 2nd 16 ga wad because it is not profitable to do so or that a demand does not exist.

Davis,

I am glad you were clear in your concern with Kevin. From the post I have read in the past it seems to me that they have been evasive in explaining the situation. If you are never the squeaky wheel in business you are always assured disappointing results.

Charlie,

I don't know how many cases of these wads you believe are sold, but I would guess it is less than 500 cases a year(possibly half of that), unless an OEM is buying the DR16.

Not sure if you understand how the DR16 was developed, but it wasn't developed by a big company looking to make tons of money. Rather by a fellow that is too good for his own good.

The shotshell reloading market is no where as large as folks think it is and with the 16 gauge occupying only 3% of the market........not hard too see where this is going.

On top of that DownRange reacts to issues at a snails pace in January, they talk a good game, but .........

Hopefully Nick Hammack will jump in here and explain.

*Last edited by skeettx on Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:26 pm; edited 1 time in total*

He he he
I have 5000+ wads in my storage container Smile

But, broke down and called DR just because ...

Kevin and I giggled and chatted and talked SNOW and when he was last in Amarillo trap shooting at my club.

They will start running DR16 wads in two weeks, Recobs will be the recipient of the first shipment of DR16 wads

http://www.recobstargetshop.com/index.htm

And I called them about allowing us to pre-order wads with them and they will meet and call me back on what their policy will be.

Stand by (my old military coming through) and I will report back to y'all as soon as I have data.

Mike

Way to go, Mike!!!! OOOORAHHHHH!!!!

Joined: 06 Jun 2008 Posts: 117

Thanks for all the information.
I also tried to load 7/8 with SG wad did not work.
TheSG wad is what I use for 1oz.
Please post when DR wads are available
Thanks
Readgriff

Joined: 28 Aug 2014 Posts: 924 Location: Eastern Tennessee

Readgriff,

If your interested gamaliel has cb0078 & bpi has sg-16s which is a reduced volume version of the sg-16. Here are some links

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/SG16S-Sporting-16ga-Short-wads-250_bag/productinfo/072SG16S/

http://www.gamaliel.com/claybusterwads/Claybuster_Wad_16ga_7_8oz.asp