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I've never loaded card and fiber shells , but have recently acquired a 1907 (I think) L.C. Smith in 16 . I'm fairly certain it's 2 9/16 chambered - I won't have it in my hands for a few more weeks . I have already ordered some 2 1/2 inch RSTs , but card and fiber just seems more appropriate . I'll be ordering some paper hull RSTs as soon as they're available , and these are the hulls I'm primarily inquiring about . I have no clue as to the card and fiber loading process and would appreciate any input . I'm already a member of the reloading group , and will research specific 3/4 ounce loads there . It's more the process that has me befuddled

I've never seen a benefit for built up wad columns of card and fiber or cork. There're reasons that plastic wads supplanted built up wad columns very quickly after they were introduced to reloaders - primarily ease of loading and efficiency (~ 10% less powder for the same velocity).

I load for guns built in 1866, 1891 and ~1887-1894 and use plastic wads in all of them. My 16 gauge is the gun built in 1866 and I load in 2 1/2" RST hulls.

Thank you , appreciate the input

Here's a link to my card and fiber wad thread:

http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16834

I've loaded a few boxes now, and I'm happy with them. Two hard cards and two 1/2" fiber wads take a little more effort to load than a single plastic wad. Initial pattern testing looks good with 7/8oz load. I need to get a 3/4oz charge bar in the near future to compare patterns.

I like shooting a traditional loaded shotshell. Have mostly used them in my modern ugartechea, but have some older guns to try them in too. The little cloud of fiber is a nice touch. The boy scout in me like not leaving a platic wad laying in the field everytime I pull the trigger.

They may not be as efficient as a modern wad load, but pen birds haven't noticed a difference.

Precision Reloading seemed to have the best price on hard cards and fiber wads, FYI.

Over the summer I might start playing with some 777 loads as well. I'd really like some paper hulls to load as well.

Joined: 26 Apr 2010 Posts: 3177 Location: NCWa

A landowner that I know and have permission to hunt on his land prefers that anyone hunting on his property use biodegradeable wads. There were some one-piece wads on the market a few years ago, but I never saw them in the stores or had them in-stock when I mail-ordered- and anyway, they were only made in 12 ga. So, I load cardboard and felt for hunting on his land. The process isn't that much different than using one-piece wads (since I'm using a single stage press). I find things work best if I flare out the case mouth and insert what wads I'm using directly into the hull, avoiding the wad guide. Then it's just a matter of pressing the wads in tight before dropping the shot. As noted, the compression from the powder isn't sealed as tightly as a one piece wad, so it takes a little more powder to generate equal velocities- but the rancher is happy, which is the main thing Smile

I am fortunate to get invited to shoot dove on a field that is planted yearly for the sole purpose of dove shooting. It has been continuously shot for more than 50 seasons. On the uncultivated grass aprons of the field lie scattered 50 years of multicolored wads of all gauges.

Besides allowing your shotgun to pattern the way it was originally intended, one advantage to conventional wads is the ability to tailor the wad column height for perfect crimps. You can have the "efficiency" as well as the proper wad column height if you use a plastic over-powder seal wad, or make your own paper inverted cup seal wads as did a fellow on the low pressure reloading group (Mike Doerner). Mike got great results, comparable in performance to plastic over-powder cup wads, in tests performed by Tom Armbrust.

Loading shells can be as much a fiddler's game as you want. One would probably not want to load large quantities using conventional wads, but as "old school" as they are, conventional wads can be a fine route to special loads for your unique gun and game situation. Now that we have many good unitized plastic wad options for the 16, conventional wads make less sense for more people. It wasn't always that way.

My curiosity is about the entire process, I don't know a nitro card from an overshot card . I've read a little in Lyman's, but there's scant information in newer publications . I know it will be a process of discovery, but it's something I want to try . It just seems fitting for the gun . I'm not especially a double gun guy , the vast majority of my loads will remain conventional. I've wanted an American made double - either an LC Smith or a Baker - for a long time . Lucked into the Elsie , and I just want to do it in a way that honors it's heritage

Card and fiber wads work just fine.......there is no secret to using them.

Resize, deprime, reprime and drop the powder are the same.

Add the nitro card using the same procedure you use to insert a plastic wad, then the cushion wad(s) to build the wad column and for cushioning the shot.

Drop the shot and either fold crimp or use an overshot wad to roll crimp.

Now the part that I hate, get out the elbow grease because the lead shot is going to lead the forcing cone, parts of the bore and the choke.

I guess it could be called tradition......I call it repeating history.

It is fun for a couple of shots........after that.......gimme my plastic wads back.

I shot 100 of those card and fiber loads for trap one day........never again.

If you look around, you can usually find some GOOD card and fiber wads made by Alcan, Ljutic and Winchester.

The good stuff are firm and some are wax-edged.

Butler makes fiber wads but.......IMO they aren't much good for anything but altering the wad column height. The Butler card wads are OK......I guess.

From an ease of reloading and consistent ballistics point of view, I really like the Alcan Feltan Bluestreaks with the Alcan Air-Wedge wads. The Air-Wedge is a plastic over powder wad, that seals great. The Bluestreaks are the wax edged fiber wad. These wads fit straight walled hulls best. The patterns will surprise you, they can be really good.

For loading stacked loads go to BPI they have everything you'll need.
http://www.ballisticproducts.com/
For stacked loads go here and join. https://uk.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/reloading16gauge/info?prop=eupdate.
There is one sheet on the spreadsheets just for stacked loads.
When loading stacked loads, one thing is you have to use pressure against the wads before putting in the shot, There used to be listing for the pressure depending on the powder. I would use at least 40 to 50 lbs. pressure for the loads. Pressure was used against the wads to make sure the powder was packed tight.

Reference the card/fiber wad reloading, one thing I have taken to doing is before I dump the shot, and I mostly load by hand, is to cut a....shot protector, for lack of a better description....of fairly thick paper, (I use old bullseye targets). Cut it the correct length, roll it up, insert it in the hull on top of the last wad then dump the shot charge. I have no leading problems. It adds a couple steps to the process and is probably impractical for someone who shoots a great deal of shotgun. However, I like to "fiddle" with stuff and all I use a shotgun for is hunting so a couple boxes of shells easily lasts me a season. Now, if we had any quail left it might be a different proposition.

To protect the shot from the barrel, and vice versa (leading, etc), I have mimicked the old Winchester Mark 5 loads using hand-cut pieces of fairly thick polyethylene sheet (not plastic bag material). Better yet, use Mylar -- much tougher stuff. No need to pay through the nose for the pre-cut pieces from Ballistic Products, that are never quite right. Just get some Mylar folders or overhead projector sheets from the office supply places and cut the pieces you need with a paper cutter -- quick and easy. I've used Teflon sheeting too, but it's harder to get and more costly. Teflon might be the best thing for shot sleeves.

By the way, the best supplier of conventional wads is CircleFly: http://www.circlefly.com/ I believe they are actually the descendant of Alcan, wad-wise anyway.

Anyone remember the old Alcan Quick-Sert plastic protector you could load through the wad guide of your machine? They are pretty much long gone, but you might run into a box of them once in a great while.

+1 on http://www.circlefly.com/
My hunting loads are assembled using card and fiber wads and I couldn't be happier.

I have loaded fiber wad shells since 1970. I buy wads on GB or ebay when I find them. I also have a set of arch punches that I reamed out to the standard diameters for all gauges. I buy hard card stock and punch whatever I want out of it for Nitro Cards.I punch out wads from cork sheets and ragwool felt carpet pad. the process is very straight forward, after sizing reprime and powder, put 1 or two NC wads and enough felt or cork wads get stacked to bring the amount of shot up to the level where the crimp space is best for a nice crimp. it is a trial and error process until you find out how many of which wads work the best. Once that is established repeat the combination over and over till you have the number of shells you need. One recomendation is to finish the stack with a NC to keep shot from embedding in the filler wads.