16ga.com ~ View topic - Lee Loader: crimp and case problems: Federal Game Hulls?

Joined: 03 May 2015 Posts: 7

Hello, a new person here. iPhone a pain typing.

I have a Ithaca 1929 side by side 16 gauge that was my grandfathers. Bluing worn but mechanically perfect after feeding families through the depression. It has been used but little by me in the last 60 years i've had it.

My family shoots a good bit of 20 gauge and 12 gauge fed by two MEC machines that work perfectly with WW AA cases, PB for light and normal 7/8 to 1 1/8 ounce loads, and WW209 or Fed209A primers with appropriate wads.

Wanting to reload only a little 16 gauge, I got a Lee Load All 2 in 16 gauge. With my MEC experience, the Lee was easy to set up and works properly.

My plan was to use PB for about 1100fps, 1 ounce shot, either primer, and CBO100-16 wads.

The problem I am having appears to be poor quality Federal game hulls.

1). With very old Federal Game hulls, Fed209A primers were loose and the crimps non existent. Purple plastic paper base type.

2). With new Fed Game hulls, the Fed209A were tight but the case sides wrinkled and collapsed before any crimp formed. Purple plastic paper base type.

3). Using 17.4 PB, 1 ounce shot, the new Fed purple hulls, and half a 1/4" 20 cgauge fiber filler wad in the plastic wad, WW209, it made about the right crimp, but the soft cases wanted to wrinkle.

That load looked about like similar threads here about Federal hull problems. It was also a little stiff in a light gun.

Question: Since I have the Claybuster wads, PB, shot, and two primers, what case should I look for that will actually work and make a decent looking shell?

I' like to go a little lighter with 7/8 ounce or stay with 1 ounce and slow down.

PB can be 17.4, 16.6, or 15.8. More than that rattles your teeth.

But I need a steer to components that actually work. I think a whole 1/4" filler wad would make these plastic wads useable with 7/8 ounce rather than the intended 1 ounce.

The problem is with what hull.

Thank you for any help.

welcome to our site - best in the world ! 1st off , 16's are notorious kickers , so that goes without more todo . What I'd do is use your lightest pb , a full filler , 7/8 or 3/4 if you can fit it , and ... try to start your crimps on one of your MECS . Put a 6 pointer in and some washers under it , and use it to set the points . See if that doesn't make crimping easier on the Lee . The MEC 12ga will be easiest to set the pts . No reason to not use the Feds , they can be a little touchy crimping - not unusual - not a show stopper !

Joined: 03 May 2015 Posts: 7

Hunted for WW one piece compression hulls. No luck. Bought a box of 16/1ounce/2.5de/game WW shells to shoot and see if WW hulls better.

Joined: 12 Feb 2015 Posts: 100 Location: Oregon

The CB0100-16 wad is a WAA16 clone. I have had good luck using Remington Gameload hulls. Check PB recipes on the Hodgdon website.
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/shotgun

The newer 16 ga. Federal Game Load hulls are not skived (tapered hull mouths). Reforming and crimping the existing folds can be difficult as is. You might try rounding out the hull mouths, then gently skiving a few hulls with an acutely tapered abrasive stone in a hand drill or a tapered reamer by hand and see how it goes. A 1/4 inch of taper should do the job if you don't overdo it and get the hull mouths too thin. Go easy. Trial and error should help guide you.

Joined: 03 May 2015 Posts: 7

Some progress.

I decided to try a different load.
-7/8 ounce #8
-Lee #116 insert for 15.8 grains PB
-WW209
-whole 1/4" 20 gauge filler wad in the plastic wad
-CB0100-16 WW type wad

Notes:
-the Lee loader makes some problems of its own.
A). When seating the wad, just touch it on the powder or the machine crushes the wad.
B). When starting the crimp, the die over travels and will crush both the folds and the hull sides. Simply start the folds all the way and stop. You can press and look and press again and look.
C). The crimp die also overtravels and will wreck the crimp pushing it too deep. You have to learn the stop point before the crimp is pushed in opening it. If the die stops at about the top of the assembly screw on its right side, the crimp is about right.

Taking that into consideration, then.

Federal GAME hulls:
-Useable reloads. The crimp is usually OK, but some cases just won't crimp right.

WW SX Code XU168
-useless as the whole hull mouth is just rubbery mush with no real memory.

The lighter shot load and more moderate powder charge make the recoil reasonable. It cracks and hits well but doesn't kill your shoulder in a really light SxS.

Joined: 03 May 2015 Posts: 7

I do really hope to find some old WW one piece plastic loaded shells to empty and reload.

(The heck with it. I gave up and ordered 200 Cheddite hulls. At least I won't mix up the blue ones with anything else.)

Here they are

http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17555

Hi Bill and welcome to the sight. The following is an alternate to your hull issue.
I load all brass hulls from Rocky Mountain Cartridge (RMC) and according to RMC any published gauge appropriate load found in reloading manuals or powder manufactures web sites will work in their brass hulls because they have the “same inside diameter” as plastic hulls. In my search for the perfect load, I have loaded and patterned many published loads using 1-piece wads with success ranging from poor to outstanding. My favorite 16 gauge loads and best patterns use card and fiber wads. When patterning shotgun loads, barrels often have a mind of their own, but shot hardness or lack there of is one of factors.

Reloading brass hulls takes more time to load than plastic or paper because hand tools are necessary, not a press. I shoot clay targets using plastic and paper loads, but for hunting, it’s all brass for moi.

Custom tools.

OR the old reliable Lee Loader

Joined: 03 May 2015 Posts: 7

Excellent progress with help of Ballistics Products fellows.

Wanted mild 7/8 ounce load and have it with nice crimps:

:::Cheddite blue hulls 2 3/4" OR Federal Game hulls 2 3/4"
:::Cheddite came primed and Federal took WW209
:::15.8 PB using insert #116 from Lee Load All 2 set
:::makes 1100 fps (1100-1120 per BPI fellow)
:::SG16 wad
:::7/8 ounce Lee insert for shot
:::over shot thin card wad
:::6 fold crimp with new Cheddite or Federal fired game hulls. The Lee crimp starter nicely starts the Cheddite and restarts the Federal.
:::Lee crimp station makes proper crimp

:::Without the card wad the 7/8 ounce load lets the crimp push too deep.

With proper components the Lee loader works just fine and makes nice shells.

IF I used 1 ounce of shot the over shot card is probably not needed.

IF I used a hunting velocity of PB with 7/8 ounce, the over shot card would probably not be needed.

Member Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Posts: 2168 Location: Florida

I sure that is a very mild load but I'll bet it is a bit less than 1100 fps . I load a similar but don,t need the OS card for the load . But with the Lee Loader it may be necessary .

See below tested data . Beware , neither load probably won't be good in cold weather .

Joined: 03 May 2015 Posts: 7

My Cheddite and Federal are both 2 3/4" and probably why need card over shot since the hull is longer. (Yours all say 2 1/2")

As to velocity, I am repeating info furnished. I do know they are nicer to shoot than 1 or 1 1/8 ounce loads in a real light SxS.

The 7/8 ounce load burns clean and leaves nothing in the barrels.

I don't think for potting around that 25-50 fps makes a lot of difference.

Cold weather reference: ??? PB is so fast a flake I didn't consider cold slowing down the burn rate much.

I use PB in some 12 gauge loads with 7/8 ounce at 5000psi that just make a long barreled 12 C O U G H politely. It always burns.