16ga.com ~ View topic - Cheerio, Top Or Bottom

Joined: 09 Sep 2006 Posts: 863 Location: NoDak

Hi all, love the other thread about cheero's, lots of great kidding! Great thing about this forum. Okay, so, anyway, who is a top of the shot or under the shot kind of reloader?

Reason I ask, I read somewhere, that if you use a cheerio as a filler, you should place the cheerio on top of the shot, so that more shot will be in the wad, rather than above the wad if you place the cheerio in the bottom of the wad.

I don't know, maybe it makes sense, then again, who knows.

Your thoughts please.

I've always put them in the bottom - don't really think it matters worth a hoot !

*Last edited by skeettx on Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:23 pm; edited 1 time in total*

I NORMALLY put my Cheerio on the bottom
I have a Texan progressive press and I have shortened the shot drop tube to not mess with the Cheerio or get it stuck in the tube.

I think it makes a better crimp this way. And sometime if you have a slight hole in the crimp and the C-O is on top, it looks ugly.

Life is too short to shoot with ugly ammo Shocked

Mike

Joined: 03 Mar 2015 Posts: 126 Location: Duluth, MN

I also put them in the bottom. I agree that it crimps better when the cheerio is at the bottom. When they are on the top, they seem more likely to get crushed during crimping.

Also, I assume when the shell is fired, the cheerio is crushed pretty much instantly upon ignition and the shot will fall be pressing back into the cup by the time the wad leaves the hull. I doubt there will be any shot above the wad in its travel through the barrel. . .

Cheerio on bottom , see above for reasoning

Member Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Posts: 2168 Location: Florida

I prefer it be in the bottom , I do it that way when using my Sizemasters because I can seat the wad and the drop the shot . But when using the Mec progressive press the wad is seated and the shot dropped all in one pull of the handle so I just put in on top , really make no difference .

For folded crimps, all shot cup fillers should be placed under the shot. Doing so allows the bottom of the crimp folds to unifromly nestle into the shot charge. The top of the shot charge will be more unifomly distributed under the crimp folds which in turn helps the crimp to open more evenly when the load is fired.

Once the load is fired, the shot will settle back into the shot cup. The pellets will be well protected from bore scrub as long as most of the shot charge is contained in the shot cup when the shell is crimped. When assembling the load, it is best to avoid either too much shot outside the shot cup or not enough to prevent the wad petals from collapsing inward when the load is crimped.

The only exception to the above might be to encourage bore scrub and some pellet flattening in short range loads for quicker pattern dispersal.

Joined: 12 Feb 2015 Posts: 100 Location: Oregon

My shot drop tube is set to push the wad all the way into the hull. When I tried dropping a Cheerio in before the shot drop, it was getting wedged into the drop tube. I put mine in last, on top of the shot, and I can hear it crunch when I crimp it, but I get a nice flat crimp. This way it doesn't require any extra level movements, just drop in the Cheerio on top of the shot, and then precrimp and crimp.

I agree with Mark above. Most fillers placed at bottom of wad cup can plug shot drop tube and often result bad shot spill when using a press that drops when wad is pushed into case; exceptions being correctly sized styro or card disks. I usually put any filler on top as it has the added advantage of plugging holes in poorly crimped cases.

The two posts above explain very well why it is best to use nitro card wads of the right diameter and thickness (or other suitable circular flat, firm card wad) to fill the bottom of the shot cups. Hard card wads big enough to fit snuggly in the bottom of the shot cup won't lodge in the drop tube, and they uniformly act as a solid, flat platform for the shot charge w/o interfering with the crimp folds in any possible way.

Nitro card wads are also just as easy to drop into the shot cup as cheerios or any other substitute. They are also very inexpensive per wad if bought in bulk from Circle Fly or any other company who offers liberal discounts for bulk purchases. They are just not quite as tasty as cheerios w/ milk and sugar. However, I can't tell much difference in taste to dry cheerios--especially old ones. Laughing

Joined: 15 Jun 2010 Posts: 1358 Location: Twin Cities, MN

This debate is pointless until someone performs a comparison. Cheerio on top vs Cheerio on bottom. 5 shells of each sent out for pressure and chronograph testing, then 10 shots at paper at various yardages and the patterns compared with a computer program. Until this is done no one can claim that their method is superior. I await the results.
Regards,
Jeff

Member Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 1257 Location: Nebraska

Not with held breath, I hope!

Always add them on top. They distort, crumble and crunch and leave trails in my shooting jacket pocket. Sometimes they mix with free-range pellets there, and it's like having a Super-X Double X grex combination going on. I'll have to try them in the bottom of the cups some time, I don't think the drop tube extends down enough to catch or crush them with my reloads.

Instead of adding anything to a payload to form proper crimps, did you folks ever consider that there is something WRONG with the data or that your machine is improperly adjusted?

Adding food to shotshells is a hack way of reloading. Adding fillers to shotshell loads that use wads with a collapsible section is usually unnecessary.

I have probably loaded as many different combinations as most folks and I haven't ever needed to add fillers especially food to any load that was worth using.

If you absolutely need to Rube Goldberg a load with Cherios or any other food it doesn't matter where you put it because it crushes, which is exactly what you don't want a filler to do. The wad already is made to collapse on ignition, you don't need a filler to collapse. If you need fillers, than it should be placed under the shot and preferably not collapsible to any great extent.

I am sure that there are any number of combinations of food and shotshells that may test OK, but did you folks ever consider doing something the correct way?

It seems the way that this world is going, good enough seems to have overtaken proper........glad you folks aren't doctors.

*Last edited by skeettx on Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:24 pm; edited 1 time in total*

Mark,

blah, blah, blah, That is what my kids hear when I talk to them Very Happy

So you think that this will change my ways, he he he

I need a way to use up the literal thousands of wads that I am given
on a monthly basis. So, the fillers make for economical skeet/trap loads when given wads that can hold one ounce or more.

But your well written rant was a joy to read
THANKS

Mike

Well said Mike. Many of "us folks" have come by lots of older high capacity wads, but enjoy shooting lighter loads that can be easily assembled using the old wads and fillers. Good enough for practice or to win a club event from time to time.