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Somewhere in what used to be my mind I seem to recall that Green Dot can be used in place of International in 16 ga. recipes.

Is my memory correct or has it turned into a sieve and everything just goes right through it?

Joined: 26 Apr 2010 Posts: 3177 Location: NCWa

I don't know how it relates to International, but Green Dot is the powder tht I use for all the 16 ga loads that are less than 1 oz (those being 5/8, 3/4, & 7/8 oz)- generally is 16.6 grains (because that's what the bushing tosses).

Member Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Posts: 2168 Location: Florida

Here some data that compares the two .

http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12804&highlight=sg16%20Today%20at%206:33%20PM

In these loads seams GD is slightly hotter .

I think what you may remember reading is that International is Hodgdon's answer to Alliant's Green Dot. So if you run out of one you can use the other for approximately the same performance........but you need different loading data for each powder.

Mark, that sounds about right. It looks like my next step is to send some loads to Tom Armbrust for testing.

Thank you.

Member Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Posts: 2168 Location: Florida

Art, pm sent

The three Hodgdon Clays powder series, Clays, International Clays, and Universal Clays, were introduced a couple of decades ago in order to directly compete with the three most popular Hercules/Alliant Dot powders. The Clays series were initially cleaner burning. Alliant cleaned up the Dot Powder series about a decade ago, so there is no longer a noticable advantage in that respect. The three Alliant Dot powders are usually less expensive on average.

International Clays is designed to directly compete w/ Green Dot. Interantional Clays is less dense than Green Dot, so weighed charges are not equivalent. However, volumetrically equal charges are also very close ballistic equals. Simply use the same powder bushing to throw acceptable charges of either powder.

Member Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Posts: 2168 Location: Florida

Joined: 26 Apr 2010 Posts: 3177 Location: NCWa

16GG

I think I'm missing something: Clays, Int Clays & Univ Clays were to compete directly with Hercules Dot powders?? I doubt it. They are similar to Red Dot, Green Dot and Unique, NOT the other Dot, Blue Dot. When you give advice and try to come off as an Ex-spurt, please at least make an effort at having your information correct.

I have to come to GG's defense here. OK, so he missed a Dot -- nothing Unique about that. But we knew what he was saying, and he was basically right. For sure he was right about Hodgdon's intent to compete directly with the three most popular target powders in the Alliant/Hercules line.

*Last edited by 16gaugeguy on Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:08 am; edited 1 time in total*

From fn16ga.

Where exactly did you come up with that . I did volumetric bushing drops GD verses International Clays , did an average for 20 drops each same bushing.

The bushing I was using drops an average of GD 13.6 grains to International 15.0 grains .

So your saying that 13.6 grains of GD is ballistically equal to 15.0grains of

international all else being the same in a load .[/quote]

Thanks for your input here fn16ga. Things might have significantly changed since I last used any of the Hodgdon Clays series of powders.

Back in the mid-1990's I was a registered trap shooter at a very active ATA affiliated club. Several of my fellow registered trap shooters and I were very interested in the then new Hodgdon Clays series of powders for obvious reasons. We individually tested the new Hodgdon powders in comparison to the Hercules Dot powders on various progressive reloaders and other equipment we individually owned and used.

I'm basing my info on the results I got from the powder throw weights and the trap ammo I reloaded on the two MEC Grabber 76R models I owned at that time. Others used Ponsness Warren and Hornady/Pacific 366 progressive reloaders. We all got very close results in comparison, but none of them were identical.

At that time, I saw no real advantages to switching from the Hercules Dot powders I'd been using to the new Clays powders. I was very happy with my trap loads. A couple of the other members went to Clays and International Clays and were happy with theirs. However, over the next half dozen trap shooting seasons or so, none of us saw any significant differences in our loads or our scores which could have been attributed to one powder brand over the other.

Admittedly, I've not reloaded or shot any trap or other loads using the Clays series of powders since that time, so things might have changed by now. I do know that Powder manufacturers modify products over time. I also know that Hodgdon sources muchif not most of its powders from various contracted manufacturers based all over the globe and changes sources every so often as well. On top of thet, Alliant has made some design changes to the Dot series of powders as well.

I think is best that anyone take any of the info I offer at any time as a guideline or suggestion and never as an absolute. It is always best to check the individual results we get when using the reloading equipment and components we have on hand. That would be the smartest approach.

GG - I think basically you are correct . You just have to have a knowledge of the powder charts and recheck on a scale . That goes with shot also . I basically wrote off that mag shot was equal and watched out for soft . Now , after really watching the scales for the super mag , my little digital scale is about wore out ! By the way for 600 grns of shot , the FED 6 shot we recovered takes the 11/2 lee dropper setting , and Eagle takes 13/8 . As much as shotgunning isn't an EXACT science , it does take a little work to keep shots similar .