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Joined: 05 Feb 2015 Posts: 267 Location: New Braunfels TX

What is a Remington SP Plastic Shell. I just bought both kinds Precision had but neither was an SP that I could tell,

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2125 Location: Hudson,Wy

Since there have been 57 views and no response, I will respond. Remington SP plastic hulls are a straight walled case with a separate plastic base wad (not compression formed like Rem STS or Win AA hulls). Both 16 ga. once fired Rem hulls currently listed in the Precision catalog are SP type. I hope this makes thing a little clearer. Enjoy your reloading, especially the part where the shells get used up!

Joined: 05 Feb 2015 Posts: 267 Location: New Braunfels TX

Thank you !!

this type case is what we refer to as RGL's in these threads .The only variation is the old type shells which had a molded fiber type basewad and 57 size primers . You would know these if you were reloading as the 209 primers would be hard to seat. They can be used by seating a spent primer , but the fiber can break apart and cause problems . RGL's are as described except that they have smaller capacities than Ched type cases .

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2125 Location: Hudson,Wy

So true. I still have some of the OLD SP's and they are easily identified by looking inside at the base wad. It looks like it is made of ground up Cheerios. Easy to spot. The hulls I have are somewhat transparent as well. The sad part is that they may last through more loadings than the newer SP's/RGL's! I wish Remington would use a better plastic.

I think we all do, but I'd not expect Remington to jump on the Pro 16ga bandwagon this late in the game. They are too busy screwing up the half decent products they already make. Laughing

Joined: 05 Feb 2015 Posts: 267 Location: New Braunfels TX

Member Joined: 09 Aug 2004 Posts: 401 Location: Tennessee

16GG, you are so right. A little while back, Remingtoons re-introduced the 16ga. They made them on 12ga frames and bored the barrels from 12ga blanks. They ended up heavier than 12ga guns and handled like the proverbial 'pig on a snow shovel'. Since they did not sell well, due to their poor design, they opined that there was no demand for 16ga guns and discontinued them. Had they used the old-style light contoured barrels I believe the guns would have been a success but we will never know.
It is sad to see a once-great gun manufacturer taken over by bean-counters instead of knowledgeable gun people. I will never again buy a new Remingtoon product.

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2125 Location: Hudson,Wy

Shame. Had they done it right there would have been decent interest. They sell other niche products but seem to do their homework with those rather than just trying to see how cheaply they can offer a different chambering.
At least they still use round pellets in their shot shells. Hypersonic steel is about the only sales gimmick and not as silly as the beer kegs and square bricks some other companies are firing down range.

After having been in the firearm/reloading industry, on the retail end. There is a difference of selling something and making a profit on it.

We can all run down any manufacturer for not giving the 16 Gauge new products, but the truth of the matter is that you cannot make money, at least not enough to run a business on, selling 16 Gauge anything.

You could fill a whole store with every product for the 16 Gauge and you would be out of business before the end of the year.

We are a bunch of dinosaurs, which is OK, but you at least need to be honest with yourselves.

Joined: 05 Feb 2015 Posts: 267 Location: New Braunfels TX

Dogchaser, I don't think any of us expect a manufacture to go exclusive 16 ga. but a run every now and then would be nice. Look at Browning, new O/U's and full line of pump guns, now if they would just do Gold in 16. You can have the A5. Spanish doubles still come in 16.

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2125 Location: Hudson,Wy

I am painfully aware that we are dinosaurs. We will remain so in the forceable future unless one of the target games adds 16 ga. to the event roster. I have always believed that if you are going to design a new product that you at least put in the effort to do it right or not bother at all. An overweight 16ga. from Rem only hurt public interest in the chambering, counterproductive from a business standpoint.
Granted, they did not want to spend much on the project to limit risk but this effort was dead before it left the shore. Money wasted. Considering the primary interest in 16 bore is amongst avid upland bird hunters, a lighter gun like a Light Contour or Special field would have been more likely to turn a profit. Or at least result in less of a loss.

Apparently you have money to waste.

Do you think if we made a 16 Gauge 1100 on properly sized frame, contoured the barrel and got it to weigh 7 lbs. it would sell like hot cakes?

Think about how costly that would be from a manufacturing standpoint. All new drawings, all new fixtures and tooling.........not a good move.

I believe we 16 ga shooters should be happy with what we already have. The average shooter today thinks the 16 ga died years ago, there is no real demand for it.

We can still get some nice factory loads for it, for folks like me who don't reload, and there are many,many awful nice old 16 ga shotguns out there, for those of us who do appreciate them.

A major arms manufacturer is not going to invest the capital into what is conceived to be a "cult" gauge. Not if they plan on staying in business.

Dale

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2125 Location: Hudson,Wy

Never said it would sell like hotcakes and never would expect it too. Others may, but I have not. The only guns that truly sell like hotcakes are 12ga. But Remington did invest in some tooling, even to build from the 12ga. frame.
Here is the deal. The barrels required their own tooling. The magazine tube likewise. The receiver could easily have been built from the 20 ga. frame which is capable of withstanding recoil stress and pressures of the 3" 20ga. The 16 has standard loads that exceed neither and the magazine tube port could be reamed larger. The 12ga. receiver had to be reamed undersize. Building a 16 from a 20 frame is nothing new but I will readily admit that corporate attorneys may have nixed the idea.
As far as new tooling goes, in the day and age of CNC machinery building the receivers, I am not sure that the cost would be much different other than a smaller production run with CNC command program. Leaving a slightly girthier profile to the receiver vs. the 20 ga. (if needed) is a matter of computer program file with CNC milling. The only real issue would be the barrel contour. How much of the blank production is automated? The extent of that issue would likely determine price point. We do know that Rem already has the tooling to bore and chamber the blank.
The point I made was that if a half hearted effort is all that is going to be brought to the table, put your eggs in another basket and move on. Releasing an overweight gun that appealed to few shooters was a costly mistake for sure.
A livelier gun would've at least had a chance to sell and possibly bolster company image. Ever wonder why auto manufacturers build low volume units like the Corvette or Raptor? Even at a higher retail price, they generate very little profit. The boost in brand image, however does. The heavy 16 did not help Rem. there either. Do I have money to waste? No. Apparently Remington did.
I won't lose any sleep over it, if I want a 16 bore pump I can easily locate an Ithaca, an older Remington, etc.
As far as the comments concerning appreciating what we do have, and the 16 not being the most productive place to invest manufacturing capital, I offer no contradiction. That is merely the reality we face and wishing otherwise will make it no less true.