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<  16ga. Guns  ~  Browning Citori Gr. I for sale/Cabela's.
Wes Stueber
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:25 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 33
Location: Illinois

I just got back from the K.C., KS Cabela's store (had to stop while out that way turkey hunting, you know!). Anyway, they had a Browning Citori Gr. I 16 ga. for sale for $1,250. It looked new with a 28" barrel, I believe.
If anyone would be interested, just call the Gun Library out there and talk to them. Just thought I would pass this along as they're great guns, in my opinion.
Wes

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Dave Erickson
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:45 pm  Reply with quote
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That's a good price!
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:49 pm  Reply with quote
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Cabela's KC store said they don't have this gun....at least not anymore as of last Friday. The dept head said he couldn't remember having this gun at the price quoted. Was that an over the counter verbal price, or a sales tag price? They do have a clean used 28" steel framed superlight for $1495 plus shipping. Its the only used 16 ga Citori they've had in a while they said. what's up here?
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Wes Stueber
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 5:15 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 33
Location: Illinois

16gaugeguy,
The day I was in the KC, KS Cabela's store was Sunday, April 17. The Citori Grade I in 16 ga. I handled was for $1,250. I almost bought it myself! It may have been sold by last Friday.
I don't know who you talked to but I had the gun in my hand and I know what it was as I already own one. There was also a higher grade Citori on that rack. The man should have looked at that one opposite the gun counter.
The sales tag price was what I said it was. I don't know, "what's up here"? There is also quite a few racks of used firearms near the entrance to the Gun Library. I was trying to pass on a good deal to the Group.
Wes

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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:13 am  Reply with quote
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Wes, my question was meant to clarify the situation. I'm glad you responded so assertively. It confirms a suspition I've had about Cabela's phone-in Gun Library system for a while. It seems they might be giving inflated qoutes to phone customers, then playing stupid if they get button-holed on a certain gun or a previously confirmed price.

However, please clarify for us what the model was. They claimed they had not had a used 16 ga. gr. 1 Lightning for some time. I was very specific in my questions about the model, but assumed that you meant it was a Lightning. They stipulated that the only used gun they had for the previous few weeks was a 28" standard steel framed, straight wrist stocked superlight @ $1495, with a custom Browning recoil pad installed. Browning doesn't install pads on these guns, custom or otherwise, so thats some more misrepresentation right there. Browning will do it as an aftermarket service through their gun repair network. Even so, a used gun with a cut stock, recoil pad or otherwise, is worth less money, not more. Its future collector value is diminished substantially, regardless of condition.

If they are using these tactics, perhaps getting a stock number off the hang tag, or price tag before posting the info might help us get fairer treatment. Or perhaps we should just boycott the bastards. it's not the first time I've had a run in with their used gun sales force. They clearly misrepresented a gun to me a few years ago as new, unfired, but previously owned. In fact, the gun had been used for shooting and hunting for several seasons and was at least 8 years older than they claimed. I won that one by going to the head man of corporate customer service with my proof (an original sales receipt found tucked in the new gun literature in the original box with the previous owners name and address) and threatening to bring legal action. I got a substantial price adjustment that brought the gun in line with fair market value, plus some extra for my "having been inconveinianced"... their word for wallet raped. Obviously, they may not have changed their ways. Maybe these Cabela guys are ex-used car salesmen. Some character flaws are just not possible to fix. Wink
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Wes Stueber
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 8:15 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Aug 2004
Posts: 33
Location: Illinois

16gaugeguy,
In response to your note on Cabela's Browning Citori 16 gauge for sale. Yes, it was a Lightning model with the older style forearm and rounded P-O-W grip. I have the earlier, first model from 1987, and if it was used, it was barely noticeable. It had the original hard plastic Browning buttplate, also.
I did not see an English grip 16 gauge there with a Browning recoil pad, but I could have missed it. The only other 16 ga. I saw was a higher grade Citori with gold birds and a blued receiver. This was on the same rack I spoke of previously, across from the gun counter itself.
This evening, I looked up Cabela's Gun Library offerings for sale and they had 4 different ones in stock. It said all Grade I models were available and listed the stores the others were at, this at the present time?
I must admit, I have never bought a firearm from Cabela's, but I have heard other stories about them before. The two gentlemen who deals at the KS store should be able to find these on their computer, if they neither know anything about them! Did you talk to B.C. Kinsey or Terry Neyer?
I'm sorry to hear you had a bad time dealing with Cabela's Gun Library before. From my experiences I don't know now if I ever will!
The Cabela's web had the following listed in Browning 16 ga. just recently: A Grand Lightning at $2,299. - a Lightning Grade III at $2,399. - a White Lightning at $1,630. - Grade I Lightning available (their words) for $1.579. ( I handled one for $1,250.!)
The Superlight they talked to you about with the pad, possibly was done over here at Arnold, MO. It's not too far from me and I know several people who have had such work done over there, it that was where it was worked on? As you said, the pad did not come on the Superlight originally.
I hope this clarifies the Cabela's Browning Lightning Grade I in 16 ga. up. If I can be of further assistance, please let me know. Smile
Wes

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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:42 am  Reply with quote
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Wes, thanks for the info. I did not get the names of either of the two fellows I talked to. Most salespeople do not seem to introduce themselves to phone customers for some reason. I guess it doesn't matter, since they also seem to play fast and loose with the facts. As the wise man said, once burned twice wise. If I choose to ever deal with them again, I will get the specifics first.
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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:54 am  Reply with quote
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Cabela's is a large corporation with a number of stores. Given the volume of business they do and the hours they're open, they have a lot of people working in gun sales (even in their Gun Libraries, with the higher dollar stuff). I've done a bunch of deals with the Owatonna MN store, particularly with Bill Taylor, who runs the Gun Library up there. He's always been very fair with me, and I also like their store policy. Basically, they want the customer to be satisfied, and they'll go to significant lengths to achieve that end.

Here's a recent example: I bought a Greener 16 from them a few months back. Had it sent from one of the other stores to Owatonna. They'd barely taken it out of the box when I arrived to check it out, so Bill Taylor hadn't had a chance to look it over either. Anyhow, I made the deal, took the gun home. Once I got it home, I spotted a crack in the wrist, hidden by the checkering, that neither Bill nor I had noticed in the Library. Seemed to be a good repair, solidly done, so I took it off to the range. On about the 2nd shot, I ended up with a stock in 2 pieces--broke right through the old repair, which I could see had been very poorly done. I called Bill immediately. There was no doubt in my mind that they'd give me my money back. When I told him about the problem, he asked, "What would you like us to do?" I said I really liked the gun, and asked if they'd be willing to restock it for me. They agreed to that, no extra charge. I don't know how many dealers would do that, but I know that quite a few would not go that far to satisfy a customer, and in some cases you might be lucky to get your money back, let alone a new stock.
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Wolfchief
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:52 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 769
Location: Indiana

To Mr. Brown: I appreciate your point of view. It can depend on who the customer is. I've dealt with the Owatonna store as well; it was about 2 years ago. I dealt with a man named Andy. Real hard-nose. I dealt with him face-to-face. Never again. Seems his "99%" was my "90%" when it came to describing firearms. As usual, his gun was worth a mint, and my well-maintained trade-in was one step removed from trash..... And, last year I looked at a Winchester .22, a Model 72, that the Cabela's in Mitchell had advertised on the Web for sale. When I went west for a pheasant hunt, I stopped in Mitchell to look at it. I did not feel it was particularly well-described on the website once I saw it firsthand. As always in these transactions, Caveat Emptor.

I'm certainly no expert but I do have a "school of hard knocks", hard-won education on buying used firearms, and I think Cabela's is overpriced; they sometimes misrepresent their wares and some of their salespeople are rude and arrogant---just as you'd find in any other profession. I don't have anything against Cabela's; they sell fine gear and their stores are beautiful---but their gun reps don't walk on water.

Also, if you are the Larry Brown I think you might be, you are a pheasant hunter and writer of some note and a fan of 16 ga. side by sides; this makes you a good person !! I read a book---- "From a Pheasant Hunter's Notebook" and if you're that guy, I hope you are planning to write a "sequel". Point is, if they knew that, they just might have offered you a slightly different deal than would be offered "the masses".

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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 7:50 am  Reply with quote
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Larry, I wish that I could say that my experiance was as pleasant. I was basically told that if I didn't like the gun, I could send it back at my expense, because the salesman would never misrepresent a gun to a client. What this character did not know is that I had him cold due to the proof of age I'd found and the original owner's related history of the gun.

When the saleman found out what I knew, he nearly choked and started trying to blow smoke up every butt in sight. He totally changed his story about the gun's history, stated that he had told me it had been hunted with, had a few minor dings on the bottom of the stock, and reminded me that I knew it was used when I bought it.

Fortunately, the corporate customer service agent realized that I was telling the truth after he contacted the original owner. I ended up getting a substantial refund which brought the price of the gun actually below its true worth. However this did not occur until after I mentioned that the dept of consumer affairs in the Mass Attorney General's office would take a very dim view of such shinanigans.

So you are right in the sense that Cabela's will go to great lengths to satisfy someone who obviously knows the facts, has the proof to back them up, and perhaps some legal or other type of clout. However, I'm certain that a lot of folks who aren't as fortunate as you or I get screwed to the wall. It is as I said, knowledge is the key to everything...that and a little clout to oil the lock.

I admire your efforts to educate the shooting public. It is through well educated and informed writers like you that I came to be aware of the virtues of a good 16 ga. gun. I know you must also get a lot of rejection slips from the hack gun mags and their legal staff. Knowledge and truth tend to scare the hell out of these guys when it goes against carefully shaped corporate and /or political custom and belief and the financial pressure they can bring to bear. I just hope you don't get your pants sued off by some idiot with an agenda that doesn't read your statements thoroughly, and who knows a well connected lawyer. There is no way to win there, because your legal defense bills will cost you dearly. That would be a damned shame and a travesty.
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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 11:25 am  Reply with quote
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Wolfchief, I am indeed the writer, and glad you liked my book. Just brought out a revised and updated version last year, but the birds keep teaching me more things, so there may well be a sequel.

Guy, I don't get rejected that much any more. The editors I work for are pretty careful people. In my Shooting Sportsman article on proof, for example, the editors and I got into a very interesting exchange of emails with the Birmingham Proof House. As a result, we were able to clear up some misconceptions on British proof that I'd subscribed to myself, and that I'd seen repeated on a number of internet sites. That's the kind of info I really enjoy putting out there! And I do my best to be very cautious (and conservative) about what I write when it comes to guns, appropriate loads, etc. Sometimes I think that I almost go as far as some of the silly OSHA warnings you see on various products! But I'm certainly trying my best to keep people from making mistakes (some of which I made myself before I knew better) rather than getting them into trouble.
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Steve Smith
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 1:17 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Apr 2005
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Location: Traverse City, MI

Hard-earned knowledge over the last 15 years:
Sometimes it's just easier for his editors to give Brown his own way than to argue with him.
"Arguing with a writer is like wrestling with a pig in the mud -- after a couple hours, you realize the pig likes it."

SS

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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:05 pm  Reply with quote
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Thanks Steve, I'll keep that in mind. I work in the engineering business. I've heard it said that "getting across to an engineer is only slightly more difficult than communicating with the dead", or so my friends tell me. I think its a vicious rumor myself started by those who are jealous over how special we really are. Wink
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Steve Smith
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 4:57 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Apr 2005
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Guy,

That's what my son-in-law (ME) tells me, so it has to be true.

One of my favorite indoor sports is tweaking Larry -- one of life's great people to know.

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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 5:05 am  Reply with quote
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Smith, next time we hunt together, I'm going to slip a couple 3" magnums in your British 12.Smile

Seriously, one of the great things about working in this business is having editors like Steve, the late Dave Meisner, and Ralph Stuart at Shooting Sportsman (and Vic Venters when he was there). On rare occasions, we writers do make mistakes, and it's great to have guys that know more than a little about the subject matter at hand to keep most of the flubs out of print.
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