16ga.com Forum Index
Author Message
<  16ga. General Discussion  ~  No more hunting/fishing/boating?!?
revdocdrew
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:59 am  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 2016
Location: Glendale, AZ

US federal judge declares boating, fishing, huntin
09/16/06 at 1:53pm
US federal judge declares boating, fishing, hunting illegal in all US navigable waters

Judge Robert G. James, U. S. District Court, Western District of Louisiana, Nominated by William J. Clinton on January 27, 1998

Civil Docket No. 3:01-CV2624
United States District Court; Western District of Louisiana; Monroe Division

in the case of : Normal Parm, Jr. et al. v. Mark W. Shumate, as Sheriff of East Carroll Parish

Judge Robert G. James of the United States District Court, Western Division of Louisiana, has said that it is criminal trespass for the American boating public to boat, fish, or hunt on the Mississippi River and other navigable waters in the US.

Judge James ruled that federal law grants exclusive and private control over the waters of the river, outside the main shipping channel, to riparian landowners. The shallows of the navigable waters are no longer open to the public. That, in effect, makes boating illegal across most of the country.

"Even though this action seems like a horrible pre-April fools joke, it is very serious," said Phil Keeter, MRAA president, in a statement. "Because essentially all the waters and waterways of our country are considered navigable in the US law, this ruling declares recreational boating, water skiing, fishing, waterfowl hunting, and fishing tournaments to be illegal and the public subject to jail sentences for recreating with their families."

************

From the Law Offices of Paul Hurd

PRESS RELEASE
U.S. DISTRICT JUDGE DECLARES RECREATIONAL BOATING
AND FISHING ILLEGAL ON MISSISSIPPI RIVER AND
AMERICA’S OTHER NAVIGABLE WATERS

In the case of Normal Parm, et al v. Sheriff Mark Shumate, of East Carroll Parish, (Civil No.3:01-CV2624; United States District Court; Western District of Louisiana, Monroe Division) United States District Judge Robert G. James has declared it to be criminal trespassing for the public to boat, fish or hunt on the Mississippi River and other navigable waters of America, affirming the arrest of fishermen and boaters utilizing the waters of the Mississippi River. This ruling declares recreational boating, fishing tournament, waterfowl hunting, and pleasure boating illegal on navigable rivers, unless conducted within the main channel of the river, or with the permission of all riparian landowners along the navigable river.

District Court Judge James’s ruling under federal law grants to the riparian landowners of the Mississippi River, the exclusive and private control over the waters of the Mississippi River, outside of the main channel of the Mississippi River. The shallows of navigable waterways are no longer open to the public. This decision, based in federal law, equally applies to all other navigable waterways of America. For bass fishermen and duck hunters, and other fishermen and hunters that use the ever changing shallow waters of navigable rivers for their outdoor activities has been declared illegal. District Judge James affirmed that the public is subject to criminal arrest for trespassing on the riparian landowner’s privately owned and controlled water if they venture outside the main channel of a navigable waterway.

On April 30, 2006, Magistrate Judge James D. Kirk (Document 80) found that the American public had the right under federal law and Louisiana law, to navigate, boat, fish and hunt on the waters of the Mississippi River, across the entire surface of the Mississippi River, up to the normal high water of the river. Judge Kirk relied upon the long established federal principles of navigation that recognized that the public’s federal navigational rights ". . . entitles the public generally to the reasonable use of navigable waters for all legitimate purposes of travel or transportation, for boating or sailing for pleasure, as well as for carrying persons or property for hire, and in any kind of water craft the use of which is consistent with others also enjoying the right possessed in common." Silver Springs Paradise Co. v. Ray, 50 F.2d 356 (5th Cir., 1931). Further, Magistrate Kirk affirmed the public’s fundamental right to boat and fish on the navigable waters of Louisiana for both recreational and commercial purposes affirming the Civil Code’s declaration that " Everyone has the right to fish in the rivers, ports, roadsteads, and harbors, . . . ." (Louisiana Civil Code, Article 452), and the Louisiana Constitution declaration that "[t]he freedom to hunt, fish, and trap wildlife, including all aquatic life, traditionally taken by hunters, trappers and anglers, is a valued natural heritage that shall be forever preserved for the people." (Louisiana Constitution, Article 1, Section 27).

On August 29, 2006, District Judge Robert G. James, United States District Court, sitting in Monroe, Louisiana rejected the findings of Magistrate Judge Kirk, and declared that the American Public has no federal or state right to fish or hunt on the Mississippi River, or any other navigable waterway in America (Document 139).

U.S. District Judge James specifically declared that neither century old statutes enacted as each State joined the Union, nor federal common law of public use, create a right of the public to use the navigable waters of America for recreation, fishing or boating, unless the activity is done as a commercial enterprise, and limited to the main channel of the river. Judge James has declared that the public’s only right to use the navigable waters of America are limited to commercial activities, and specifically DOES NOT INCLUDE the right of the public to boat, fish and recreate on the rivers of America.

Judge James rejected the argument made by the Plaintiffs that the multi-billion dollar commercial activities that support the manufacturing and sale of personal and recreational water craft and related equipment, and the public recreational uses of the navigable waters, were sufficiently "commercial" to be allowed on America’s navigable waters. If the judgement of District Judge James is affirmed, the exclusion of the recreational boater, fisherman and hunter threatens the financial viability of the entire segment of the American economy that supports recreational use of public waters.

Finally, Judge James declared that the people boating, hunting or fishing on the waters of the Mississippi River, at normal heights, are subject to arrest for trespass, unless the activity is limited to the narrow, main channel of the river.

The following are quotes from the opinion of Judge Robert James, Western District of Louisiana:

CONCLUSION NO. 1: AMERICAN PUBLIC HAS NO FEDERAL LAW RIGHT TO FISH OR HUNT ON MISSISSIPPI RIVER OR OTHER NAVIGABLE WATERS OF AMERICA.

District Court Judge Robert James declared that the People of America do not have the right under federal law, holding that " . . . the federal navigational servitude do[es] not provide the Plaintiffs with the right to fish and hunt on the Mississippi River."

District Judge James declared that the People of America do not ". . . have a right to fish and hunt on the Mississippi River up to the ordinary high water mark when it [the Mississippi River] periodically floods . . ." the riparian land.

CONCLUSION NO. 2: AMERICAN PUBLIC HAS NO STATE LAW RIGHT TO FISH OR HUNT ON MISSISSIPPI RIVER OR OTHER NAVIGABLE WATERS OF AMERICA.

District Judge James declared that under State law ". . . fishing and hunting [on the waters of the Mississippi River and other navigable waterways] is not included in these rights" that are granted on rivers of America as they naturally rise and fall.

CONCLUSION NO. 3: ANY PERSON WHO FISHES OR HUNTS ON THE WATERS OF THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER, OUTSIDE THE MAIN CHANNEL, IS SUBJECT TO ARREST FOR TRESPASSING ON THE WATER.

District Judge James declared that if you are fishing on the Mississippi River anywhere other than the main channel, ". . . the Sheriff . . . has probable cause to arrest you for trespassing. "

_________________
Drew Hause
http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowledge.com/www/home
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Square Load
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:43 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 711
Location: Flagstaff, AZ

Absolutely f@$#%*g incredible!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ron Overberg
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:25 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 591
Location: Plains, MT.

Rev,
I guess it is lucky we as hunters and shooters have been lumped into a group with boaters, fisherman, and othe recreational users. The boat and jet ski folks are probably hot in pursuit of an injuction before their spring sales take a nose dive. It will be interesting to see what follows.
Best,
Ron
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sprocket
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:37 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 27 Aug 2006
Posts: 596
Location: Massachusetts

I'll be it's overturned in a higher court...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hoashooter
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:39 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 3436
Location: Illinois

Clinton continues to influence politics after all these years Embarassed Embarassed Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sprocket
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:23 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 27 Aug 2006
Posts: 596
Location: Massachusetts

hoashooter wrote:
Clinton continues to influence politics after all these years Embarassed Embarassed Evil or Very Mad Evil or Very Mad


It's the legacy of any president that appoints a judge...evr see "Pelican Brief"? maks the point clearly in the early half of the film.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
3DocPop
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:46 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 110
Location: California

But, but, but - that happened in Louisiana I thought the only place that smelly deciscions like this happend were in 16GG's beloved home state, and here in my own Socialist Republic of California.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sprocket
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:02 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 27 Aug 2006
Posts: 596
Location: Massachusetts

3DocPop wrote:
But, but, but - that happened in Louisiana I thought the only place that smelly deciscions like this happend were in 16GG's beloved home state, and here in my own Socialist Republic of California.


sadly no - it's just that we're more use to it...

watch what happens when they bas alcohol sales & hunting on Sunday

fawking puratins
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
87016ga
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:06 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 145
Location: minnesota

isn't that the Socialist Republic of KKALIFORNIA ??
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TJC
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:58 am  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 1522
Location: NH

I would bet that it will be overturned but it is still unbelievable. It just doesn't end.

_________________
A bad day of hunting is better than a good day of work.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
old16
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:52 am  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 450
Location: Indiana

Boys
Lets get back to the Iran and the rest of the bulls%$#@ so we can keep your mind off of what you are just talking about. That way we can slip it to the public and by the time the public knows what is going on it will be to late.

It has worked for the last 30yrs I think it will keep on working.

_________________
Anyone that is willing to give up anypart of freedom for a piece of security deserve neither.
Ben Franklin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:03 am  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 6535
Location: massachusetts

I've had the pleasure of living on either side of the Mason-Dixon line. I can tell you there is a difference in the way politics works itself out in the two regions. Here in the liberal Northeast, the Democrats would of run this judge for govenor of Mass or some other fool state. In Dixie, they will run him into a swamp and let the skeeters, gators, and snakes deal with him. I love the South. Folks are so practical there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Ron Overberg
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:35 am  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 02 Dec 2005
Posts: 591
Location: Plains, MT.

I can't believe you would suggest feeding that kinda garbage to those poor creatures. You should be ashamed of your self. Wink
Best,
Ron
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jeff Mulliken
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:23 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 25 Jul 2006
Posts: 781

Read the original case file and you'll find that the ruling was not so unreasonable as represented by quoting specific pieces out of context.

The ruling related to hunting and fishing (recreational use) of the water and banks over private property that was temporararily flooded outside of the normal high water marks. It did nothing to prevent the reasonable rights to hunt fish etc except for within the main navagable river channel.

It might keep you from running your bass boat into a guys bean fields when they have 18" of water over them for 2 days during a flood, or walking the edges of the flood water in his back yard claiming your on the banks of a "navagable waterway".

It also did nothing to give new rights to property owners to restrict access to water or banks that were previously considered available to public access.

Quoting out of context and spreading false impressions over the net until they appear credible is a problem that we should all be aware of. Anyone with an agenda can do this and make otherwise reasonable people take unreasonable positions about issues that they are passionate about.

This practice is used regularly by the anti gun crowd and unfortunately the pro gun crowd as well.

Don't be a tool. Read this kind of stuff carefully and form your own opinions. And then if it passes the BS test get mad.

Jeff
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
revdocdrew
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:09 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 2016
Location: Glendale, AZ

Mr Hurd has a website which reveals little http://www.paulloyhurd.com/

_________________
Drew Hause
http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowledge.com/www/home
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
All times are GMT - 7 Hours

View next topic
View previous topic
Page 1 of 2
Goto page 1, 2  Next
16ga.com Forum Index  ~  16ga. General Discussion

Post new topic   Reply to topic


 
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB and NoseBleed v1.09