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< 16ga. Ammunition & Reloading ~ Winchester one pic hull |
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Posted:
Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:32 am
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Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Posts: 815
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I'm really suprised that some company never purchased the old tolling and molds for the Win. 1 pic hull. Seems they have become worth their weight in gold. Luckily I still have about 1000 left. With that many I still only use them as a speciality foe hunting only. A few I use for backup loads at trap.
I suppose the old tooling has been destroyed. But their probably could be a small fortune to be made to the owner who had them. Just day dreaming. Bill |
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Posted:
Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:16 am
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Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 6535
Location: massachusetts
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All compression formed hull production involves an exact specification for the required plastic material, exact heat range, plus all the compression tooling and machinery being in spec. Further, the petrochemical based plastic material used for the original WWAA hulls was made up of layered sheets made specifically for each gauge hull. The material alone became too expensive after raw oil prices went up out of sight.
Olin finally discontinued making the original compression formed hulls, because the overall cost of production did not justify the profits. I don't think any other company or group of investment capitalists would step in to that situation. |
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Posted:
Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:44 pm
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Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Posts: 815
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Yes the cost would be very expensive to produce. To bad the cheddites weren't made to the same dimensions as the one piece. No harm for dreaming though. |
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Posted:
Fri Sep 04, 2015 5:05 pm
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Member
Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 711
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
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If Winchester can't afford to make compression formed hulls anymore how come Remington is still making them in 12, 20 & 28 gauge? Plus they are making them in premium target, hunting and promotional loads.
Surprised Remington hasn't gone broke yet. |
_________________ Dennis
Current 16ga. Stable
Browning Citori Gr I
Browning Belgium Sweet 16
A.H. Fox Sterlingworth
Remington 11-48
Remington 31
Remington 870
Geco/J.P. Sauer BLNE
Winchester Mod 12 |
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Posted:
Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:03 pm
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Member
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 401
Location: Tennessee
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Amazing, isn't it. The Remington Gun Club is superior to most hulls. Too bad they do not produce it in 16ga. |
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Posted:
Sat Sep 05, 2015 4:16 am
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Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 1946
Location: Central CT
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Remington one piece hulls are not compression formed. I believe they are injection molded, which are two completely different processes. |
_________________ Mark |
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Posted:
Sat Sep 05, 2015 4:57 am
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Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Posts: 815
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Maybe someone will see the lightbulb turn on. Just maybe. |
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Posted:
Sat Sep 05, 2015 12:22 pm
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Member
Joined: 16 Feb 2006
Posts: 711
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
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Roadkill wrote: |
Amazing, isn't it. The Remington Gun Club is superior to most hulls. Too bad they do not produce it in 16ga.
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+1 |
_________________ Dennis
Current 16ga. Stable
Browning Citori Gr I
Browning Belgium Sweet 16
A.H. Fox Sterlingworth
Remington 11-48
Remington 31
Remington 870
Geco/J.P. Sauer BLNE
Winchester Mod 12 |
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Posted:
Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:43 am
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Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 6535
Location: massachusetts
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Dogchaser37 wrote: |
Remington one piece hulls are not compression formed. I believe they are injection molded, which are two completely different processes.
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Right DC. When they wear out, the original WWAA hulls will delaminate (peel like an onion).
Worn out Remington hulls simply split like a grape as any uniformly molded tube will. They are not laminated. They are both injection molded from hot liquid plastic material and final form finished by compression.
Further, I believe the latest /Remington non-premium hulls are all polyformed now. They are like any other Cheddite type hull. Only The STS premium grade hulls remain to be one piece. I'm betting their days are numbered as well. I'll wager Remington will also develop their own version of the new WW HS polyformed hulls. And so it goes. |
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Posted:
Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:53 am
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Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 1624
Location: northwewst Wyoming
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I have a lifetime supply of 20 GA WW plastic hulls and several years worth of the same in 12 GA, but I shoot 16 GA almost to exclusion of any other of the gauges and as many of you know, I'm a brass hull fan.
I plan on leaving my 20's, a couple of presses and the hulls to grandkids. |
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Posted:
Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:17 am
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Member
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 759
Location: Somewhere in the Socialist State of Minnesota
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Quote: |
Further, I believe the latest /Remington non-premium hulls are all polyformed now. They are like any other Cheddite type hull. Only The STS premium grade hulls remain to be one piece. I'm betting their days are numbered as well. I'll wager Remington will also develop their own version of the new WW HS polyformed hulls. And so it goes.
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wrong again |
_________________ http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/reloading16gauge/
Minnesota Gun Owners http://gocra.org/ |
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Posted:
Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:44 pm
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Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 6535
Location: massachusetts
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oldhunter wrote: |
Quote: |
Further, I believe the latest /Remington non-premium hulls are all polyformed now. They are like any other Cheddite type hull. Only The STS premium grade hulls remain to be one piece. I'm betting their days are numbered as well. I'll wager Remington will also develop their own version of the new WW HS polyformed hulls. And so it goes.
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wrong again
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Ya think? Over the last few years, I've recovered a fair number of the latest once fired Remington Sport Load hulls in 12 and 20 gauge at my gun club. Those hulls examined have a relatively flat plastic base wad insert, a finely ribbed, non-tapered plastic hull tube, and a hull capacity about the same as the Cheddite type hulls used by a bunch of the European brands and the Winchester loads manufactured in Australia. These latest Remington Sport loads definately do not have one piece hulls. My hunch on the STS hulls going polyformed is just that, a hunch and not a fact--yet.
Anyone can easily naysay w/o an explanation oldhunter. How about one? |
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Posted:
Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:57 pm
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Member
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 759
Location: Somewhere in the Socialist State of Minnesota
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I have thousands of Remington 20 and 12 gauge hulls from the cheaper sport loads on up to the STS hulls and they are still one piece hulls. I just finished going through another barrel of hulls and they were mostly remingtons and federals and found no remington hulls that weren't one piece.
The only 16 gauge hulls were federal. |
_________________ http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/reloading16gauge/
Minnesota Gun Owners http://gocra.org/ |
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Posted:
Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:05 am
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Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 2062
Location: canandaigua - western n.y. (formerly deerhunter)
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the rem 12/20's are one piece - the 16 is a form of cheddite ... just had the world skeet here last week - Rem reps stated that the STS is of a short life before it disappears . |
_________________ Molly sez AArrrooooooah ! |
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Posted:
Fri Sep 18, 2015 11:20 am
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Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 6535
Location: massachusetts
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Yup. Remington has never produced any one piece 16 gauge hulls. They are all polyformed. Most of us here have known this (and complained about it ) for years.
I'm betting the Remington Sport Load and Club hulls you two acquired were manufactured before 2013. I have several thousand older 12 ga. once fired Club (green one piece) and Sport Load (black one piece) hulls myself, plus a smaller stash of the same in 20 gauge. Mine were also all manufactured and acquired before 2013.
After sometime in 2012, all the freshly fired 12 and 20 gauge black Remington Sport Load hulls I've policed up at my club are the polyformed type as I've reported. We don't see any newly manufactured Remington Club hulls, since nobody at the club shoots them. Price might be a factor. I can't say, because I have not needed to purchase factory loads for quite a while. I have enough once fired hulls to reload any gauge I choose to for about as long as I'll be on the planet. After that, it won't matter.
As for the newer Remington Sport Load hulls, I've reported what I've observed for obvious reasons. Folks should know what they intend to reload w/o assuming wrongly based on conflicting claims. So perhaps someone else will refer the matter directly to Remington and report back to us. In the mean time, I strongly suggest we assume nothing and all of us look twice at any of the new black Remington Sport Load hulls we acquire. Might keep us out of harm's way--well at least while we are at our loading benches. |
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