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Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Posts: 41

Does anyone know if there are any recipes for this combo or are these 2 even compatible?

Thanks, John.

they are if you use a 3/8" filler under the shot

Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 1307 Location: Western WA

Some here report powder migration with that combination because it's a loose fit. WAA16 was not designed for thin straight wall hulls. Big flaky powders should be less of a problem.

Joined: 28 Aug 2014 Posts: 924 Location: Eastern Tennessee

I'd use the ched/waa combo with 800x, blue dot, green dot without concern. I have been told unique and herco should be okay too, but not tested them.

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2124 Location: Hudson,Wy

Lately I have been using 1 1/8 ounce loads of #5 shot with a moderate charge of Longshot in the Herter's/Cheddite hull for sage grouse with impressive results. I have not had the powder migration problem so far and I really like the fact that the WAA16 wad will actually hold that much shot in the protective cup. I did attach a load to the dash of one of my vehicles with end aimed down for several days this summer. The vehicle in question vibrates a good bit and is used over some mighty rough roads. The result? No migration issues beyond the small amount that got by during wad seating. That happens with any powder.

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2124 Location: Hudson,Wy

Important update: I did experience migration problems with shells carried in my pants pockets. Something about the way the shells jostle around is just right to get the powder to leak past the gas cup. When I pre-flared the obturating cup on the wads I only experienced leakage five times out of 300+ rounds. This was likely due to an impartial job of flaring (my thumbnail probably got tired during that process).

Joined: 03 Sep 2014 Posts: 398 Location: Rochester, MN

It is the only wad that I have found available. I have many empty Herters Cheddite hulls.

For hunting loads, I have used that hull/wad combination with 800X powder and 1 1/8 oz of shot.

For target loads, I use 700x powder and 7/8 oz of shot. I place 5-6 black beans on top of the shot to get a good crimp.

Claybusters made their WinAA16 replicas, CB0100-16 and CB0078-16 with a larger diameter over-powder cup than the original Win AA16, specifically for use in straight-walled hulls like Cheddites, etc, as there are no more 16 ga. tapered-wall hulls being manufactured.

All 16 ga. hulls being manufactured now are thin-wall Reiffenhauser types, with the only exceptional features being wound paper basewads in Federals and thicker walls in Remingtons. They're all straight-walled. Remingtons (RGL's or green ones et al), being substantially thicker-walled, don't like wads with more pronounced anti-migration rings such as Gualandi's, but they'll work with most other wads being made.

Joined: 15 Jun 2010 Posts: 1358 Location: Twin Cities, MN

I think you should load some up and try them. In a Cheddite the "regular" Claybuster 100-16 is more of an 1 1/8oz wad and the 0078-16 works as a 1 oz wad. I have played with a couple of them, but as I have a bunch (just because) I will load up a box of 1 oz in a Cheddite with 20/28 powder and see what happens. I'll drive around with some in my car for awhile. Too cold to go shooting here, so might as well reload!
Regards,
Jeff

Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 1307 Location: Western WA

WAA16/cheddite is the right wad in the wrong hull. The chief concern is blowby, even moreso than powder migration which is trouble enough. I wouldn't risk it. Just use the desired wad in the correct hull.

The way I understand this cheddite and the original waa16 do not really work out,
but the new claybuster clones can be used. Is that correct?

Glenn

Well I just dug out some new primed Cheddite hulls. Their wall thickness is .025". The tube outside diameter is about .722", leaving the inside dia. something like .672" My Claybusters 16 ga AA clones measure about .642". .030" is a lot of clearance. While this diameter is larger than the original Winchester AA16 wad, it does not look like the best choice for the thin-walled hulls of today, such as Cheddite or Fiocchi, etc, or even for some of the newer Federals/Estates. I apologize for my earlier post implying they would be OK. In view of the fact the Cheddite and the like are the majority of 16 ga. hulls nowadays, we might want to ask Claybusters to increase the powder seal/cup size about .020 - 025", and/or put an anti-migration ring on it. One thing I have observed is that the skirt of the powder seal/cup on the Claybusters wads is thinner and more compliant than the ones on the Euro-sourced wads. That would help it expand more with wad ram pressure, perhaps improving the seal.

I also measured some Gualandi and Cheddite wads -- Gualandi's were about .662" across the powder ring seals, and the Cheddite was about .664" -- it has no anti-migration rings. The powder cup/seal ends of all these wads fit loosely in a new unfired Cheddite hull. The shot cup ends of all these wads fit nice and tight in that hull! And I'm not talking about the resistance caused by the spread-out wad petals -- the bottom of the shot cups is slightly larger in diameter than the over-powder cup/seal. To me it looks like powder migration is possible with even these Euro-source wads if small-grain powder like Longshot, HS6, 4756 or 7625 were used.

My guess is that with large grain powder they'll all work pretty well in Cheddites. If you were really worried about powder migration, you might try some of the "cup expansion" tricks described on this site, but that's more fiddling than some might want -- maybe others can give you links to those posts. Otherwise, as others have said, it probably would be best to use European source wads like Cheddite, Gualandi and B&P for those types of hulls. Besides, there is the capacity issue, mentioned by others. In such high capacity hulls as Cheddite, Fiocchi etc, they'd probably only be useful for 1 1/8 oz for the CB0100-16 and one ounce for the CB0078-16. You'd probably never find appropriate powder of low enough density to provide a good fit with their intended shot capacity. Despite all this, I'll still find uses for them, and compensate for their limitations if necessary.

Member Joined: 30 Nov 2011 Posts: 1695 Location: Minnesota

is universal considered a large grain powder?

Universal flakes are about the same size as those of Unique and Green Dot, so no, they are not considered to be large or small flaked but about average in size. Migration is usually not a problem if the load design and execution are good to begin with.

When using Claybuster clones in Cheddite type hulls for heavier hunting loads, I suggest using a higher seating pressure and a very solid, slightly deeper, well tapered crimp that stays firmly closed. This should solve most powder migration problems when using most flake powders. The hemispherical wad base cup lips are supple enough to flare out and seal in the powder. The powder column must be sufficiently tall enough with or without filler wads in the shot cup for the wad base cup to firmly bear on it

In most cases, weak, poorly formed crimps in hunting loads are the culprits here. Firm crimps are usually the solution if all else is okay to begin with.