16ga.com ~ View topic - Every Gun is a Law Unto Itself--Don't give Up.

My post is not about a shotgun, but it's related to finding the best loads for a problem gun. This one is about one of my problem children--my Thompson/Center 45 cal Hawken.

I bought the T/C Hawken used in excellent overall condition back in 2006 for shooting targets w/ round balls and perhaps maxi balls for hunting. Being a 45 cal model, they are a bit rare, so I was happy to find one w/ an excellent bore and crown at a truly excellent price. The bore looked about unused.

At the range, the gun refused to shoot even mediocre groups w/ .440 or .445 round balls regardless of patch thickness, powder charge, or choice of lube. Maxi balls went all over the paper--horrible. I was crushed. Several disappointing tries later, I cleaned the gun up for storage and put it away. My job duties became more demanding shortly after this time, and the gun was forgotten until last week.

I'm retired now and looking to restart my old hobbies and past times. While scrumming around in my long stored black powder junk, I found a partial box of Hornaday .451 cal swaged round balls, and the light in my noggin clicked on.

I decided to give the Hawken another go after lo those many years. so yesterday,
off to the range I went w/ a can of Goex FFFG powder, a supply of cotton drill patch material in various thicknesses, some moose milk patch lube and some home made wonder lube, and all my usual BP paraphernalia.

Turns out that old 45 cal Hawken is a tack driver w/ the right ball/patch/lube combo. A .451 ball patched w/ .012" thick drill (compressed thickness) lubed w/ moose milk over 60 grains of FFFG BP cuts one hole groups at 50 yards w/ open sights from the bags. Swabbing the bore between shots w/ 91% rubbing alcohol is a must, and starting the patched ball w/ a mallet and a short starter is mandatory, but I'm good w/ that. Anything for good groups is my motto. Glad I did not totally give up on that old gun. I'd have missed out on something special.

so if you have a few problem children in your own collection, perhaps giving up is not the answer. Keep on thinking and trying. You just might crack the code and turn that problem child into a shooting prodigy. Very Happy

Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 1310 Location: Western WA

16gg,

Great report! I can't seem to wrap my head around how a patched ball fired through a rifled barrel can be so darned accurate, but hey, it wasn't that long ago that the whole British Empire couldn't figure it out either, about how some guys with Kentucky rifles could pick off Redcoats at 250 yards when their own Brown Bess muskets "may as well fire at the moon" at that range.

Well done,

Brewster

Joined: 17 Jan 2014 Posts: 1381 Location: Denver, Colorado

Good story. I haven't fired any black powder weapons for many years out here, even though I have had a .50 Hawken lefty flintlock by Charles Dailey that was a Christmas gift (from over 30-years ago) that was just setting in my gun cabinet. The last week of the year last year (after Christmas) I went back to visit w/the wife's family in "the old country" (Pennsylvania) and took to rifle to have something else to do while back there. I had to re-learn just about everything about blackpowder shooting and then work up a load w/sabots (now legal there & my brother-in-laws current pet load). The rifle was always fairly impressive (once you figured out the correct fill-level for the frizzen), but it shoots shockingly well with those sabots, and at distances I wouldn't have ever tried with just a patched ball. I'm going to try it again this year and I am really looking forward to it.

Member Joined: 30 Nov 2011 Posts: 1698 Location: Minnesota

Have you tried FFg? I used it in my 45 Hawken and still do in my 50 with great groups.
My hardest one to figure out was a Ruger 44 semiauto. Started with loads using bulk Rem 240 HP. Trying several combos didn't help. Litterally had patterns, not groups. Switched to Win 240HP's and bingo. Touching to in the same hole at 50yds. Same results in friends Ruger 77/44 bolt carbine.

the math doesn't add up - a 451 and a patch should be about impossible to load !! It almost sounds like the gun is a 50 and the 1st tries were just loose . Could be the barrel is oversized - never sure about these things ... I was looking for a 45 for an old Traditions trapper awhile back . The only ones in the country a guy nabbed Tripp *** had and when I talked to him to order one , he was sooo excited I was going to use patched balls . He guaranteed a 1/2'' at 50 yards . They are accurate - just have to do the sweat like you did !!

Joined: 15 Dec 2011 Posts: 156

Thats why black powder is so fun! Don't give up on hunting with a patched round ball though, it kills em just fine and was the go too projectile for for a good long time before the advent of the minnie ball and the modern bullet. But be carefull, I find that Hawken style muzzleloaders have a trait very similar to SXS's, you just cant have one! Maybe a .50 or a .54 cal Hawken could be in your future?

Thanks to all for the comments and exchange of ideas. You are all dead on for sure that shooting a muzzleloader w/ black powder and patched balls is a lot of fun. I've been doing it since the mid-1970's after I saw the movie, "Jeremiah Johnson" w/ Robert Redford as Jeremiah and Will Geer as Bear Claw Lapp. I was hooked for sure pilgrim. Very Happy

No doubt this 45 T/C Hawken barrel is oversized. It's definitely a genuine factory barrel. The rifling is the standard .005" deep T/C type and 1:48 inch twist. But muzzle loader bore sizes need not be as exact as modern rifle barrels and do vary within a wider range of tolerances. This one is probably on the upper end of that range if not a bit over it. It's a perfect example of why each gun is a law unto itself. No problem. The .451" ball w/ the proper patch thickness and lube does the trick.

I also have a few ideas in my noggin regarding the Maxi Ball problem. I have a Lyman 45 Maxi Ball mold which casts .453" lead slugs which is just about the standard factory size. They just won't shoot--not big enough in diameter for this barrel.

I might be able to shim the mold w/ some thin strips of aluminum foil and cast some oversized lead slugs. Sizing them round somewhere between the standard .452" size and .460" should clean them up and make them fit the bore nice and snug. Could very well be the solution. Another idea is to patch some slugs w/ greased bonded writing paper after the fashion of paper patched rifle bullets. But that's a pair of ideas for the future. Fine and dandy w/ me.

That's why I love this past time. We can solve these riddles and do for ourselves just like the old timers did. There weren't any gun shops or Wal Marts up in the high lonesome where the beaver were so long ago. If they didn't pack it in or make it themselves, they did w/o until they learned how or died trying. In the mean time, there were no time clocks to punch or bosses to answer to. Their time was their own to spend, and their fate was in their own hands. That's true freedom.

Bear Claw Lapp, I hear you. I'm a pilgrim for sure and always will be I reckon. Very Happy

Joined: 12 Sep 2010 Posts: 1973 Location: Maine