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<  16ga. Ammunition & Reloading  ~  Final results with the CB WAA16, Cheddite hull, and Longshot
WyoChukar
PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:37 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2124
Location: Hudson,Wy

Well, after plenty of hiking with shells in my pants pockets I have passed verdict on using Hogdon Longshot in combination with Claybuster WAA16 wads and the Herter's/Cheddite hull. In unaltered form the wads do allow significant powder migration. By altering the gas seal cup (flaring it out) the problem is solved provided that a good firm crimp is applied.
The reason I mention the crimp is that I tested the combo in a dummy round with no shot or crimp and leakage definitely occurred. Crimp pressure helps flare and seal the wad that last bit and keeps it sealed.
So why does any of this matter? First, the CB WAA16 wad is the only widely available cushioned wad that holds an honest 1 1/8 of shot in the protective cup. Why have a shot cup if it doesn't hold all of the shot? Second, Longshot combined with a high capacity hull like the Cheddite allows a proper column height/ crimp. Third, the patterns I am getting at 50 yards with 1 1/8 oz. of magnum lead 5's, a moderate charge of LS, and the WAA16 wad are downright impressive. I am using the same load with 7 1/2 shot for huns and chukars and am not disappointed.

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fn16ga
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:41 am  Reply with quote
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Great report ! Thanks .
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JMS
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:42 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 14 Dec 2007
Posts: 48
Location: Montana

Wyo,

Care to share that specific load recipe?

Thanks
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byrdog
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:20 am  Reply with quote
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Having a little shot above the shot cup puts more pellets in the fringe of the pattern. Some loads are purposely made that way. I load chilled shot with no pettels on the wad at all and I get IC patterns out of a MOD barrel for the first shot.

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AmericanMeet
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:34 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 26 Apr 2010
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Location: NCWa

I have not tested it, but I have read in a manual or two that it is best to have the shot column (with lead shot) slightly above the top of the shot cup so that on firing the shot is what pushes the crimp open rather than the shotcup, which would be pushing from the sides and curling over the compressed shot.
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fn16ga
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:17 am  Reply with quote
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Sounds like its working for his purpose . I have never worried about a little shot being above the cup unless I want tighter patters.
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:52 am  Reply with quote
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Thanks for the update WyoChukar. I think your wad choice is perfect for your purpose. FYI, the WW16AA wad cup depth matches the Remington SP16 1-1/8 ounce wad cup depth.

All good wad designs allow for about 10% of the shot to sit above the cup. This allows for a good firm crimp, and prevents the cup petals from being snagged in the crimp folds when the crimp is formed and when it is opened by the top of the shot column. The shot will settle into the cup enough to be protected from bore scrub when the load is fired.

Evenly formed, firm crimps do a number of important things to improve load performance. Poor crimps give nothing but problems. Anyone who strives for excellent load performance understands this as I'm sure you already know.

Trimming shot cup petals to length as needed or adding filler wads in the cup bottom are also acceptable. As long as the job is neatly and evenly done, and not overdone, the results will be good. Pressures and velocities should not be affected either.
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Brewster11
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:05 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 1301
Location: Western WA

I think it may be a mistake to use wads which are undersized for the hull, which is the case with WAA16 wads in Cheddite hulls, even if slightly so.

Lots of bad things can happen.

Brewster
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JNW
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:34 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Jun 2010
Posts: 1358
Location: Twin Cities, MN

WyoChukar,
Glad you have figured out your load. It sounds like it works great. Have you tried an SG16 or Trap Commander with that load and patterned them? I've never compared a given 16 gauge load with different wads and would love to see the results. If you have already done this and reported it here I apologize for not remembering. Now show us some birds taken with those loads!
Thanks,
Jeff
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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:26 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2124
Location: Hudson,Wy

With 7 1/2 shot the load is contained in the cup, with 5's about half a pellet or so peeks over. I do understand that the shot settles slightly upon firing. The goal for these loads was maximum efficiency. This is my long range load.
For opening patterns I do have a small quantity of chilled shot, but that is typically loaded in smaller gauge ammo for blue or ruffed grouse. Most of my hunting is in the great wide open and shots are not always close like they are with blue or ruffed grouse.
The load I am using consists of 1 1/8 oz. magnum lead, a modified (flared) Claybuster WAA16 wad, 24 grains of Longshot, and a Win 209 primer. Wad seating pressure is 50lbs. (settles to 45).
I have not used the S16 or Commander wad yet. They are not what I am looking for in this case but could be very useful for situations where I want a lighter load.

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Dogchaser37
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 12:24 pm  Reply with quote
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My 2 cents from the cheap seats, until you pattern and count pellets you have no idea what kind of pattern you have. Just because a wad may or may not contain the entire payload means very little as far as exterior ballistics goes.

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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:01 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
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Location: Hudson,Wy

2 cents ...Hmmm... I did pattern my load, and at a distance where it actually makes a difference for its intended purpose. I have also patterned enough loads to know that when unprotected shot scrubs the bore it gets deformed more and moves to the pattern fringe. The extreme case being no shot cup at all-pretty much universally used to open patterns at close range. Everything else is a varying degree in between and each has its own use. This is no new discovery, it is well documented by others of noteworthy status.
My posting here is for two reasons: to outline the migration of Longshot and provide a solution for those wishing to utilize the CB WAA16 wad, and to provide useful information for others looking to wring the most potential from the 16 bore.
As for the SP16, a little more shot rides above the cup with the 1 1/8oz charge than with the CBWAA16. The cup depth is the same, but those stiffening ribs do take up more space than anticipated. Also, the SP16 does not respond as well to pre-flaring the gas seal (remember we are dealing with Longshot). The Rem. is a great wad (I have lots of them), just not as well suited to this individual load.

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Dogchaser37
PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 8:41 am  Reply with quote
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Sorry, Wyo, if you did pattern and they worked out best for you great. I didn't read where you had, and never saw any comparisons. I just know that blanket statements when it comes to shotshells........if I have missed anything my apologies.

I always thought that the wad that Grafs sell as Cheddites for 1 1/8 loads look great and patterned well for mr, trouble was they were well over pressure when I sent them into be tested at the velocity I was shooting for. (1250 fps). That wad has the proper obturating cup diameter with no altering.

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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:48 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2124
Location: Hudson,Wy

Didn't know those wads were still available. I tried to find some a few months ago and drew a blank. Aren't they called Cheddite 1628's?

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fn16ga
PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:54 am  Reply with quote
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The one Grafs' sells are the 1632 same as the 1628 but without the little nubs in the over powder cup . They probably seat a little deeper than the 1628 .

http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/2495


Last edited by fn16ga on Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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