16ga.com ~ View topic

got mine from Bill Hicks and it was in great shape

I hope some one else will chime in on the need for an FFL on a return gun. It seems to me if you purchased the gun with an FFL and have taken delivery you own the gun. The fact you are sending it for repair or refund to the original FFL sender should not require an FFL. If you send it through your recieving FFL dealer the question is moot.
Best,
Ron

Member Joined: 15 Mar 2005 Posts: 358 Location: Houston

I have an article from Gun List that says a sender does not need an FFL in order to ship to an FFL. But the sender should be able to show that the receiver truly does have an FFL.

Member Joined: 11 Sep 2006 Posts: 13

Whoa there. Not so fast. A few states require any gun shipment be from FFL to FFL. I'd check your state laws first. However, in most states, you can legally ship the gun directly back to the FFL dealer you got it from without a problem if it is for replacewment or repair. However, some shipping firms or their agents have their own policie and won't handle it for you. Fedex ground will. So will UPS if you ship from one of their own terminals. The various UPS Store shops won't.

Chopper, I hope gun # 2 is a better one. Make sure the dealer looks before he sends. Have him check the gun out first. If he's not willing, look elsewhere.

This bit of news about the QC slipping on these guns concerns me. However, I'm certain Browning America is going to be all over it right quick. They always have if they know about it. This of course, takes ffedback. So let them know if you have a problem folks. They can't fix what they don't know about.

I'm betting the matter stems from customer demands for a quick delivery to avoid the possible rising prices stemming from a falling dollar. I'd heard there was an unsheduled price hike in the mix. Stay tuned for future developements. Things don't look good for this new shipment of 16 ga. Citori guns right now.

However, I had no doubt Utah would be on your side 100%. That is a comfort--a big one considering some of the shenanigans other companies have pulled.

Member Joined: 11 Sep 2006 Posts: 13

16ga guy,
could you provide us with a list of statesor state that requires an FFL to ship a long gun to FFL for repair/return?The only requirement is that there be a FFL on the receiving end.This is the Federal Law which has authority over intersate shipments of firearms.As to various UPS outlets shipping long guns your wrong there,they do.I have had no problem with shipping longuns though outlets as long as the clerk is made aware of the companies rules.They can call the UPS HQ if they are unsure.Having said that I would not use UPS any more due to problems with insurance collection from other collectors.USPS is the way to go.
Dave

I moved the 'Shipping guns' thread http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1440 back up on General Discussion.

Guest

You do not need a FFL to return a shotgun to a FFL holder.

I checked both the NRA and ATF sites and neither indicated that a FFL was required to ship a shotgun/ Only requirement, in my current situation, is that I ship the gun to a FFL, being that it is transfering ownership.

From the NRA site
"Shipping Firearms

Firearms may not be mailed or shipped interstate from one non-FFL to another non-FFL. Personally owned rifles and shotguns may be mailed or shipped to an FFL in any state for any lawful purpose, including sale, repair, or customizing. An FFL may ship a firearm or replacement firearm of the same kind and type to a person from whom it was received. Under U.S. Postal regulations, handguns may be sent via the Postal Service only from one FFL to another FFL, or between authorized government officials.

A person may ship a rifle or shotgun to himself, in care of a person who lives in another state, for purposes of hunting.

Firearms or ammunition delivered to a common carrier for shipment must be accompanied by a written notice to the carrier of the contents of the shipment."

From the ATF site:
"B Cool

May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? [Back]

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]"

BTW - the rusted WL is on it's way back and the replacement will be here Wednesday!

Member Joined: 11 Sep 2006 Posts: 13

Pleased to see you did not let misimformation and fear of breaking laws that are not there.
The gun grabbing libs want us to be confused and stand like a deer in the headlights while deciding what to do when we have the facts on our side.Go with hard facts backed up by links not heresay when looking for help on the internet reguarding gun laws.
Looking forward to hearing about the new gun on its way!

Member Joined: 11 Sep 2006 Posts: 13

I'm not going to argue this anymore. I think my advice about checking with one's own state laws is sound. I'll let the individual decide what is prudent. I reviewed the past post Rev Doc cited ( thanks again my friend) and its Ohio that has its own laws requiring a private unlicenced individual to ship a gun only through an FFL licence holder. If you doubt this, why don't you contact the Ohio state AG office and varify it like I did.

As for pandering to fear, that is pure baloney. I'm advocating prudence, which is far from fear. It is plain common sense. If you wish to advocate a blanket policy of your own for reasons of winning a silly argument on a web site, then good luck to you. That is entirely your business. However you are risking leading someone down a path that ends in nothing but trouble for them. It probably won't cost you a thing.

The BATF does not write laws. They are strictly a bureau of The federal executive branch. They can only form guidelines for federally licenced dealers to follow. They also form policies based on the existing federal law to enforce it. They do not have jurisdiction over state gun laws. They will assist a state agency in apprehending and procecuting state gun law breakers if asked and often do.

the NRA is strictly a lobbying agency that operates primarily at the national level. It does not write the laws nor will it help anyone out of a jam if he gets himself in trouble involving existing state laws. Further, the NRA was entirely useless to us folks here in MA at a time when we needed them most nearly 10 years ago in our fight to stop some of the most heinous gun laws ever passed. They postured and promised help. Then they turned their backs on us. I have little to no faith in them anymore. I do know that if your advice influences someone to erroneously fall into trouble with his state's laws, niether you or the NRA will be there to help bail him out. I'm done here.

Member Joined: 11 Sep 2006 Posts: 13

I realize from your many posts here that are quite prolific in responding to just about anything and want to push your point on anyone who dissagrees however in this case you are incorrect and when faced with facts you provide
a change in subject:"But try buy reloading componants from out of state if you live in Kennedania. "
heresay:"I bought a shotgun from an individual in a midwestern state early this summer. I want to say Michigan or Wisconsin but I'm not sure."

now the facts;
ATF ;"A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State"
NRA:"Personally owned rifles and shotguns may be mailed or shipped to an FFL in any state for any lawful purpose, including sale, repair, or customizing"

16ga guy,sorry but you are wrong and will not admit it. You want us to believe you know more than the ATF and the NRA ,sorry no sale. You want to be in fear of laws that do not exsist.That just helps those that want to curb our rights, again no sale. You have every right to live that way if you chose but don't tell me I am wrong and should live in fear of something that is not there.Thats not good for either of us or gun ownership that we both enjoy.

"I'm not going to argue this anymore"
best thing you have said so far Very Happy

No argument involved just simple facts and that always wins hands down !