16ga.com ~ View topic - Hevi-Shot 16ga Ammo Still Available & A Comment On BISMU

Joined: 29 Sep 2004 Posts: 62

My Thanksgiving Greetings to Everyone!

My earlier posts about 16ga Hevi-Shot ammo that I am selling has brought
forth some additional purchases this week and I am grateful to everyone who has purchased my excess shotgun ammo. It is appreciated. I estimate I have around
30 boxes left of the 16ga Hevi-Shot (10 rounds per box). I am asking $25 per box but I will pay the shipping. Please contact me at: kbukovich@gmail.com if you want to make a purchase or have any questions/comments, etc. For those who make a serious commitment to buy, I will set aside your boxes ahead of time awaiting delivery of your payment.

In the meantime....I want to say a few things about Bismuth. I have had some people respond to my posts saying that they are only willing to pay $10-$12 a box for my Hevi-Shot because they claim that is what they can get Bismuth, another non-toxic load, for elsewhere. With all due respect, I think the comparison is not equal. There are decided differences between Hevi-Shot and Bismuth that everyone should take into consideration before buying (off me or anyone else).

Consider the following....

Hevi-Shot Classic Doubles ammo [safe in vintage or fixed choke guns] is:
26% DENSER than steel but soft like lead;
Denser, Stringer, & Harder than Bismuth pellets;
Deeper Penetration;
Belted Sphere for MAXIMUM Pellet Mass;
Buffered & Nano-Treated pellets for tight patterns down range.

Hevi-Shot Pheasant [I have some in 20ga] is:
75% More Knockdown Power than traditional steel loads;
Extra Range Upland Load -- adds 10 effective yards to your pattern.

The Hevi-Shot Advantage Over Bismuth IMHO:
Heavier than lead or Bismuth;
Tighter Patterns;
Better Penetration;
Increased Pellet Count (* -- see below);
More Lethality;
Greater Downrange Energy.

* -- Many gun writers have stated, and I agree, that when you use non-toxic ammo you have to make some adjustments. Since Hevi-Shot is denser than lead or steel or Bismuth, you get an advantage in the pellet count. For example, if #5 shot lead is your favorite load, you can use #6 shot H-S and still get the same impact power of the 5s with more pellets per ounce with the 6s. The general wisdom in shooting circles is that if you use steel instead of lead, then you need to go UP two shot sizes with the steel due to the density differences. Ditto with Bismuth. (Tungsten Matrix, to be fair, allows one to stay at the same lead shot size number.)

To my mind Bismuth is a decent non-toxic load on game birds that are smaller in size and don't take many pellets to kill -- I'm thinking woodcock, most quail, perhaps doves. But when a hunter goes after waterfowl and especially ringneck pheasants, then he needs the advantages of Hevi-Shot. These game birds are larger, tougher to bring down, more muscled and in the case of pheasants have a set of legs on them that would rival some race horses. Also, game birds that are often taken at longer distances need a H-S if a non-toxic load is chosen -- here I'm thinking of Hungarian Partridge and some grouse species out West.

So, in a nutshell, Hevi-Shot has the edge over Bismuth because H-S is made with first class components that give superior ballistics. That is why it costs more than Bismuth.

Please stay in touch,
Keith in MI
kbukovich@gmail.com

Member Joined: 24 Jan 2007 Posts: 467 Location: SC PA

The Hevi-Shot used for the Classic Doubles loadings is not the original 12 gr/cc pellets. If you believe Environmetals claims (they are unwilling to release the density of their products anymore) of 26 percent greater density than steel, that would make it roughly 9.9 gr/cc. Virtually the same as Bismuth which is typically stated to be 9.8 gr/cc. Definitely not greater than lead at 11 gr/cc (depends on the level of antimony).

Hevi-Shots deceptive marketing practices in the last few years has earned them a less than stellar reputation.

Marcus

Easy enough to open one up and measure some pellets. I bought bulk HS years ago and it is indeed heavier than lead. It is my favorite Non Tox but I cannot use it in my older guns that are fixed 'full' choke that I am not willing to modify. Particularly one 'full and extra full' SXS.
My HS cost me more than the other Non Tox I have but to my mind it is worth it.
It is funny that they want to argue the price of the HS, but they obviously desire it more than the 'other' but are unwilling to pay the extra, though they desire it more... Very Happy

Member Joined: 17 Dec 2009 Posts: 155 Location: Vermont

Hi Keith,

Do you have any 20 gauge Hevi Shot shells in 20 gauge 2 3/4 # 7 1/2 shot. I'd like to buy some extra for walks along the creek near my home. I'm prepared for ducks or upland birds with those loads in my gun.

I'm not interested in Classic Double shells, I'm looking for the original Hevi Shot.

I used to hunt ducks with Hevi Shot 3" #6 in my 20 gauge Beretta 391. It killed ducks whether big or small MUCH better than the steel 12 gauge loads my hunting partner used.

I'm a night person so when I get up at 3 AM to get on the water by 4:30 AM it's not easy for me. If I'm going to push myself to be there I want the best ammo when I get a shot.
Hevi Shot is my favorite and I'm still using it in both 12 and 20 gauge.

Ernie

Joined: 29 Sep 2004 Posts: 62

Ernie,

The only 20 gauge Hevi-Shot I have in in #6 shot and is called Pheasant.
These loads are harder/denser than the Classic Doubles loads (which I also have in 20ga) and the box says they should only be used in barrels/guns which are approved for steel shot (although this Hevi-Shot load is not a steel load).

Personally, I think this load which is 2 3/4-inch and 7/8 oz will ne useful for you.
Please think it over and if you are interested (or have any questions) contact me at:

kbukovich@gmail.com

Thanks,
Keith

Member Joined: 17 Dec 2009 Posts: 155 Location: Vermont

Keith,

I sent your an email to get more info about buying a little of your 7/8 Hevi.

Ernie

Member Joined: 17 Dec 2009 Posts: 155 Location: Vermont

Keith,

The Hevi shot I bought arrived today and it looks great,

Thanks for the fast shipping!

Ernie

Joined: 23 Aug 2009 Posts: 295 Location: Southern Ontario

"To my mind Bismuth is a decent non-toxic load on game birds that are smaller in size and don't take many pellets to kill -- I'm thinking woodcock, most quail, perhaps doves. But when a hunter goes after waterfowl and especially ringneck pheasants, then he needs the advantages of Hevi-Shot."

Errrrr...sorry...with all due respect....the above statement couldn't be further from the truth, other than the 'To my mind" part.

7/8th's oz. of #5 bismuth
http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18050

Not sure what birds your shooting that are bigger than Canada Honkers.

Don.
P.S - I roll my own at $2 Cdn. per shell.

Guest

I'll add that I've been very pleased taking ducks and pheasants with 1 1/8 oz. Bismuth 4's.

Joined: 29 Sep 2004 Posts: 62

I must say I enjoyed some of recent posts tooting the horn in favor of Bismuth over Hevi-Shot. And bismuth shot has some things going for it: it performs close to lead and is used by some much like lead; it does not require special wadding nor is there a need for barrel modification. There is however a ballistic modification: it makes good sense to use a shot pellet one size LARGER than the normal lead choice.

Why is that? Well, bismuth shot is lighter than lead and Hevi-Shot and therefore lacks some kinetic energy -- or pellet striking power if you will. Let's take a look at the relative densities of various load pellets:

tin 7.3 g/cc
steel 7.8 g/cc
bismuth 9.6 g/cc
tungsten matrix 10.8 g/cc
lead 10.9 or 11.3 g/cc (depending on the source used)
Hevi-Steel 9.4 g/cc
Hevi-Shot 12 g/cc
Hevi-13 13g/cc

What I was saying earlier in my post regarding bismuth and Hevi-Shot was that Hevi-Shot products combine greater density and higher per pellet energy thereby making it a more lethal choice for the hunter. The greater density of Hevi-Shot allows the shooter to select a shot choice one size LESS than lead and thereby receive more pellets per load choice.

Remember with bismuth you need to choose one pellet size larger than lead while with Hevi-Shot you can select a pellet size smaller than lead to obtain the same striking power of your favorite lead shot size. This gets back to the relative densities of each.

My point in the earlier posts was that Hevi-Shot was denser, stronger, and harder hitting than bismuth pellets making it a better penetrating load all around.

Yes, you can kill pheasants, ducks, or geese with bismuth shot. I never said you could not. However, I felt Hevi-Shot would do it better. We have all seen hunters who have killed pheasants with #8 or even #9 lead shot -- but that does not make #8 or #9 the optimum lead choice for pheasants. Just as you can kill geese and other waterfowl with 7/8 oz of bismuth, that does not make that load choice to be your optimum choice for geese or waterfowl. I did say in my earlier post that bismuth would probably be a decent choice for smaller sized game birds such as grouse, partridge, quail, woodcock, and doves, but I don't think it is the best non-toxic load out there for larger, stronger game birds such as pheasants, ducks and geese. If one was hunting on a shooting preserve, which offers generally more controlled conditions and cover, then bismuth may well prove satisfactory. I was making my initial comments based on wild game birds.

Bismuth has its place in the field -- and I'm glad hunters have the choice of it -- but for the absolute all around better non-toxic choice, I honestly feel Hevi-Shot has the ballistic advantage.

Regards,
Keith in MI

Joined: 23 Aug 2009 Posts: 295 Location: Southern Ontario

Sorry again....with all due respect.....any non-tox load that I can kill, stone dead, geese and divers at 40 yards, is safe for my old sxs, only needs 7/8ths oz., AND is the cheapest non-tox alternative, is the optimum load for me.

I don't mean to be argumentative, but, hevi shot might be the Mercedes to my GM bismuth, but my GM will do the job just fine and do it cheaper, every day, all day.

For some reason it really bugs me....and I really don't know why.....maybe because you keep making statements like this, which have no basis in fact -

"Just as you can kill geese and other waterfowl with 7/8 oz of bismuth, that does not make that load choice to be your optimum choice for geese or waterfowl. I did say in my earlier post that bismuth would probably be a decent choice for smaller sized game birds such as grouse, partridge, quail, woodcock, and doves, but I don't think it is the best non-toxic load out there for larger, stronger game birds such as pheasants, ducks and geese. If one was hunting on a shooting preserve, which offers generally more controlled conditions and cover, then bismuth may well prove satisfactory. I was making my initial comments based on wild game birds."

I have no stake in bismuth sales, so I'm not 'tooting any horn' just stating my 'real world' experience with bismuth. Others that hunt with me can also attest to it's merits as a quality non-tox load.

Maybe promote hevi-shot on it's own merits, rather than lowering those of Bismuth, so others can make up their own minds, based on the proven merits of each.

Best wishes,

Don.

Member Joined: 24 Jan 2007 Posts: 467 Location: SC PA

As far as density is concerned, the original Hevi-Shot 12 gr/cc is a superior pellet compared to bismuth. The Classic Doubles loadings are NOT the same pellet. As I stated previously they are roughly 9.8 gr/cc. Virtually identical in density to bismuth. Therefore any claims to it being a superior loading are spurious.

Hevi-Shot engineers report Classic Doubles density as 9.7-9.8 gr/cc

http://www.chuckhawks.com/hevi-shot_classic_doubles_test.htm

Marc

since I started playing with the Super Mag , I've really gotten acquainted with my scales . One of the things I've noticed after lapsing for a while , was a weight diff in bismuth . Not saying all . But , I have and old 7# can from Cabella's I believe . 4shot . When Master Tik was making it here , got some 6's from him . The Cabella's shot looks moonish like it wasn't mixed all the way . MT's shot looks GREAT !! Also weighs more per vol by quite a bit . (yes , I know the shot size/weight variations ) , this is more that that . Soo , like steel shot , I think some of the mixed results MAY be attributed to some shot variation . I've used some of MT's - like it !! Dave has used some and LIKED it !! Have not used much of the old stuff to compare , but I can see where it could fracture - not MT's !!