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| < 16ga. Guns ~ more shotgun barrel woes |
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 Posted:
Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:45 pm
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Joined: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 145
Location: minnesota
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with much shame  i also can echo 16gg's use of the 28ga, i.c. choke and #6 shot on game farm chickens. it was quite a lethal and effective set-up on birds 30 yards and under. (i wish i had that browning model 12 reproduction back sometimes  )
under NO circumstances will i ever hunt wild birds (pheasants) with anything smaller than our collective favorite........the 16ga. |
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| Posted:
Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:09 am
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Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 6535
Location: massachusetts
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Well the only way we might get something close to wild birds in the early weeks of our "put and take" season is to show the birds the " Over the Hedge" video.
However, I've talked to enough folks from the bird belt to know young early season pheasant are dumber than the rocks they poop on and are often taken at very close ranges. It does not stay that way for long, but long enough so a 28 will do good service early on. I'd want a gun and a load that would not ruin such young tender birds. Pan fried young pheasant done with carmelized onions is too good a dish to pass up. YUMMM!!
PS: I'd be careful who you side with there 87016ga. You'll get the Tedster and gang all over you.  |
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| Posted:
Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:38 pm
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Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 39
Location: nebraska
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| Of course on opening day you’re also going to flush some old birds who have seen this rodeo before. For that reason alone a little more gun than a 28 ga. might be a good idea. Of course maybe that’s just true here in NE. |
Last edited by NE16 on Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| Posted:
Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:49 pm
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Joined: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 145
Location: minnesota
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i'm just posting opinions and experiences like everyone else, 16gg.
if the rest of "the gang" don't like it, well, i'm right here  |
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:52 am
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Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 6535
Location: massachusetts
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Amen brother. I believe this site was formed to both promote the 16 gauge shotgun and to help form a brotherhood amongst its fans. I think it has done these things very well.
Most of us have shared our knowledge based on our experience. We've had our differences too. that is to be expected. I also think 16ga. has done a fine job of helping us all learn to be civil in how we respond to each other. We have also learned to good naturedly jostle each other in jest. We really are quite the group. Its fun to be here. I have learned a lot. Its helped me be a better sportsmann and shotgunner. I've also made some good friends. What more could I ask for? What more could any of us?
Just like you, I will keep on posting what I have discovered or observed. If some folks choose to get upset, that is their business. They must have their reasons. As long as what they post in opposition is based in facts gathered from solid logical reasoning and experience, We should be greatful. If what they are posting is to promote their self serving interests, unfounded beliefs or opinions, that too is their right. Its our right to ignore it if its harmless, or dispute it if it is not.
So far, so good. We are still growing, still spreading the word about our favorite gauge, still sharing our knowledge and experiences for the betterment of all who might be interested, and also learning as we go. Its what we do here. That is both good and sufficient to the mission. |
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:14 am
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Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 6535
Location: massachusetts
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| NE16 wrote: |
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Of course on opening day you’re also going to flush some old birds who aren’t have seen this rodeo before. For that reason alone a little more gun than a 28 ga. might be a good idea. Of course maybe that’s just true here in NE.
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Well, each of us differ in our experiences and our abilities. Someone who is an accomplished shot might need a lesser gauge, because he is a bit quicker and surer. Others might find they need the most gun they can handle and the stiffest load they can get to accomplish the same thing. What matters most is not the gun or load, but what is being done with it and how well. As long as the birds we kill die cleanly, and are not wasted, that is all we should want.
Some folks hunt for sport or recreation. I hunt for much more. Hunting to me is an act of independent self-reliance--a continuation of my freedom loving heritage. I enjoy taking my gun and putting good food on the table. When I'm hunting and have bagged a bird or two, it helps my spirit to remain about as strong and independently free it can in this modern American culture. So to me, ruining a bird while in the act of killing it is a waste and a shame. Therefore, I use the best tool I can for the job, but no more than sufficient. I've also honed my wingshooting skills for the same reasons. I will always follow my own path. Its at the heart of my entire being. If others don't feel it my right, well here I stand facing you. Come see a man. |
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:18 am
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Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 39
Location: nebraska
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[quote="16gaugeguy]
If others don't feel it my right, well here I stand facing you. Come see a man.[/quote]
Well………ok then…………….I was with you until this………..too much drama for me, I’ve gotta go. |
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:29 am
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Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 6535
Location: massachusetts
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That is your right. What I'm saying is don't infringe on mine without expecting a fight. I will always stand my ground. That is, or was, a very traditional American view.
I'm very jealous of my freedoms. They have been eroded too far and put upon too often by our modern American culture. This mainly because too many people just roll over and surrender whatever some petty demagogue of a politician or bureaucrat feels like taking from them. Our population now acts like a big flock of sheep.
I try not to think on it too much, because it sickens me. We are becoming a nation of spineless, whining cowards, reluctently following whatever half-assed policies our government dictates, because we don't collectively stand up to them.
I might be a bit of an anachronism, but there it is. If anyone does not like it, well, they know what they can do. I'll be very willing to help them along too. |
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:20 am
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Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 450
Location: Indiana
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| 16gaugeguy wrote: |
Ted, your explanations are hopelessly out of date. Things have changed in the last 25 years. We now know more about what makes shotguns shoot well moreso than ever before. We also have the technology and techniques to make better barrels than ever before and do it relatively inexpensively. Even if the Italians choose to do it the old fashioned way by hand, good workmanship is still to be expected for the price. So, quite frankly, a history lesson in how it used to be is irrelevent and excuses don't cut it. Poor workmanship is still exactly that.
These NEW guns are made to take interchangable chokes, standardized, chokes meant to work on either barrel. This particular gun in the article is a 28 ga, not a 12 or even a 16. Larger bores are much more forgiving than small ones. .005" difference between these two small bores is a lot, whether you realize it or not.
If you had bothered to read the article, you'd know the author did not bother to pattern the gun. He simply stated the obvious fact that the Europeans tend to choke thier guns tighter.
Fine. These guns are being made for the American market where they will be shot with American style ammo. Frankly, I don't care how the Europeans make their guns for the European ammo. Most American don't shoot the stuff. Top quality American ammo works very well thank you, with less choke too. We rewrote the book on shotgun ammo over a 1/2 century ago. Even top quality European target ammo follows american design, because it just plain shoots much more effectively as a whole. due to our inovations, things are being done with small bores that just were not possible 50 years ago.
Top quality European target guns are also made with highly matched, flawless barrels. further, these guns have all the innovations originally designed and introduced by Americans. Otherwise, they could not compete.
But that is not the half of it. The author did not comment on how straight or how well regulated the bores were. This was not even addressed. He mentioned that he toted the gun around his Texas ranch to shoot at vermin with. Hey, now thats how to test a 2.5K gun properly. Treat it like a cheap single shot H&R.
I've personally seen a number of these Rizzini guns, some with prices up around 3.5k with curved, poorly matched, poorly regulated bores. I would just as soon stick pins in my eyes as pay 3.5K for a gun with barrels so obviously wrong.
As you say, SOME guns shoot well with obvious flaws. But a whole bunch do not. Why take a 2.5K gamble and buck the odds to boot. Thanks but no thanks. I want the best barrels modern methods can produce--especially on my very small bore guns where the margin for error is also so much smaller and where every pellet counts.
Further, I've also miked my share of older, pre-WWII American made shotguns. Mismatched barrels are the exception and not the rule. In fact, I have been pleasantly surprized with just how uniform the best makers's barrels turned out to be. There are more differences in bore diameters, gun to gun sure enough, but not nearly as much barrel to barrel, not often. Which tends to explain just why those fine old American guns have a solid reputation for shooting well and true. They have well made, fairly uniform barrels by and large.
Let these Italian makers make the guns right so they shoot the best they can. Then, and only then will I buy any. You of course, can spend your money any way you want. But I really doubt most folks would agree with you here if they knew better. They'd want the same as me for their money.
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16gg
I agree with you in most respects. However it has become a trend in this country to change the public thinking to take what we make or sell or youl don't get the product. This comes from what large corp. call lean manufacturing. By this way it is easier to outsource something and it may be made to substandards but thats what you are going to get and too bad.
O most of them say they will back their product but when it comes down to it they will tell you ,oh we don't make that componet for our product you will have to get hold of the manufacturer for that componet before we can back the warranty.
Its to bad that quanity over quality has become the norm. No matter what they tell you it is quanity.
You bet we can make anything in this country to precise tolerances and do it in quanity if pride was taught in the workforce but that is not the case anymore. If it can be made somewhere else overseas with substandard wages and shipped here to be sold to the american public for .10$ less do it we will save the company so much here and my bonus will be so much their.
Theirs plenty more to be said so I better stop now or I have to many for instances. Good Day |
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Anyone that is willing to give up anypart of freedom for a piece of security deserve neither.
Ben Franklin |
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