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Joined: 17 Jan 2014 Posts: 1381 Location: Denver, Colorado

I'm looking at an older Ithaca Flues as a starter gun for my boy. Since even these short-chambered (and supposedly fragile?) double guns seem to command fairly high prices, I'm considering a project gun (i.e. a fairly rough example). Any words of wisdom from this sage and august group? I know the earlier 20s and some 16s are prone to cracking, and many are fairly short and have way too-much drop. I also know that many have been made unsafe by having their short cambers extended unwisely. Are these units hard to tear down or re-assemble? How hard are parts to come by? How hard to restock?

Joined: 13 Dec 2006 Posts: 694 Location: MN

Sage?? and august??? you sure you're on the right website? Smile

Joined: 19 Jun 2004 Posts: 1480 Location: Mpls, MN.

Lloyd,
Get the boy a Nitro Special. Find one from the 1930s, that already had 2 3/4" chambers, a 20 or a 16. Most have been used pretty hard, but, nice guns still turn up. Reliable as hammers. Many of the design elements of the Nitro eventually went into the NID, another very good design. You wouldn't go wrong getting the boy one of those, either.
Don't know if you remember the post Dewey Vicknair had on American guns over on doublegun, but, these two designs, while not the most asthetically pleasing, were about bulletproof in his opinion, and that is saying something-he no longer even bothers with most American guns as a gunsmith, as so many of them are really just crap. He is by far not the only gunsmith in that camp, either.
If I were a betting man, I'd think Liam is going to be a big boy in the future. The gun that fits him in his teens might not do so when he is in his 20s. Keep that in mind. A youth pump might be a better place to start, and save the double for when he is a confirmed nutcase, like, us.

Hey, JonP, I'm as sage and August as the next guy, or, at least I look like it.

Best,
Ted Smile

Joined: 17 Jan 2014 Posts: 1381 Location: Denver, Colorado

Aw heck Ted....I'm just killing time waiting for my shop to reopen. Pumps are fine but I'm trying to get him on the right path early. I also like the safety component of a double, simple, easy to confirm loaded or unloaded, no distractions (like pumping), and he does need to get used to two triggers...as God intended. He is growing fast and will likely outgrow anything I set up for him now. Oh well, can one really have to many nice, light doubles laying around?

Does your boy get any say in the matter? My Dad ALWAYS wanted something for me that I didn't.

Why not let him determine what is the "right path" for him?

You do want him to continue enjoying shooting/ hunting don't you?

Have you asked him what he wants to shoot with?

Dale

Joined: 17 Jan 2014 Posts: 1381 Location: Denver, Colorado

Howdy Dale. How's Cheyenne tonight?

He's an only child...he gets more say than I get. I give him lots of options and I don't force anything on him (well.....I do make him take care of the dog regularly). He's got that darn left eye-dominance thing going and the pumps are too-much of a distraction. I need to get him settled-in and hitting regularly. Fit and weight are critical at the moment.

Ted: I handled a 20 Nitro Special at the Cabala's in Lonetree the other day (first one in 20 I've ever seen) and it weighed almost 7 lbs. I'm trying to stay around 6 lbs. to start. And.....if he does happen to "outgrow" it, I could always drag it along as a backup to my little 16. Just have to add a cinch-on recoil pad to make it long enough.

Joined: 04 Oct 2015 Posts: 280 Location: Clemson

Lloyd3, have you thought about a Sterlingworth? If I remember correctly, mine is right at 5.8 pounds.
Is sage and august close to old and set in my ways? If so, I'm in! Ken

Joined: 19 Jun 2004 Posts: 1480 Location: Mpls, MN.

Lloyd,
The Nitros are not all the same. My 16 might be 6 1/2 lbs. You will likely have to do some shopping for a decent example. You do have time.
Other than the Nitro or a NID, I'd avoid the American doubles for a boy, too many have been rode hard and put away wet, and weren't that good to begin with.
Any chance of lightning striking twice, and getting him into an English built boxlock, similar to your own? Maybe one with an ugly stock extension that could be removed and replaced when he gets older?
If not one of those, how about one of the Japanese boxlocks in 20 gauge, very well built, not collectable, no excuse not to modifiy the chokes and the stock to fit the boy until he gets to where he quits growing, and can find something else.
Speaking from one who has "been there, done that" on the eye dominance issues, think long and hard about an O/U. Yes, get the kid started on double triggers, but, don't be surprised if focus at the shot is all consuming for him, and a single trigger and a single sighting plain allows him to do just that. The eye dominance issue is a handicap for shooting, make no mistake about it.
I'd rather my kid be a superb shot, with a gun outside my normal interests, than a half assed shot with a gun I totally approve of.
It is for him, after all.

Best,
Ted

Joined: 12 Mar 2012 Posts: 685 Location: Ontario

Joined: 17 Jan 2014 Posts: 1381 Location: Denver, Colorado

Beagleman: The early Sterlingworths, especially the ones with the No. 4 weight barrels are very nice. They are not, however, giving those away either. I even looked at the little CZ Bobwhites. For roughly $650, one can obtain suitable weight and dimensions. I just hate buying sight-unseen and I've yet to get to handle one. So far, the Turkish guns I have handled left me a little cold.

Ted: Didn't know that about the Nitro Specials, I'll keep looking. I do know that over/unders can foot the bill here as well (maybe not so easily in the weight department), but I've always found that side by sides simply worked better for me as game guns. Like you mentioned, I've (we've) got some time yet. I'll start him on a side by side first and see how that goes.

Canvasvack: He's growing very fast now (can't keep him in pants or boots!), so my efforts may be obviated fairly soon. Upper body strength isn't there just yet, but it won't be long now. No matter how strong he gets, however, a 6lb gun in the uplands is always a treat.

I thought it over Llyod, i am as August and sage as you can get. I was born in August, and I live in Wyoming, which has millions of acres of sagebrush.

I hope your young man enjoys the shotgun YOU select for him.

Dale

OK, here is what I did 30 years ago for my son.
Standard Weight 20 gauge 1100 with the extra stock shortened to the nut on the receiver, and a 1/4 inch plywood butt plate. As he got taller, I increased the thickness of the butt plate. Finally he was old and stout enough and I switched the stock to a 12 gauge 1100. Finally he was tall enough for the factory stock.
Had two barrels, one skeet and one modified, switched out as needed for the game hunted. Today might use a set of synthetic stocks to save wear and tear on the wood.

First year, ONLY one shell in the gun but a pocketful of ammo allowed
Second year, ONLY two shells in the gun but a pocket ...
Third year, three shells in the gun, ....

Seemed to work well

August and Sage Mike

p.s. why not a double or an O/U?, was in the military and not wealthy enough for those things

Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 1310 Location: Western WA

Lloyd3,

Do give the Ithaca SKB 100 a long hard look. They are lighter yet more modern and solid than the older doubles, and shoot great. They lock up like a bank vault. A decent one might be $1200 but it will be extremely reliable and trouble free.

Brewster

I agree, simpler is better, I started out my 13 yr old grandson with my nice win model 12, he is still kind of clumsy and it made us both nervous every time he shot it. Then I found a cheap 16 ga h&r single barrel, it was smaller and lighter and fit him perfect, and no worries if he drops it.

Joined: 19 Apr 2014 Posts: 429 Location: Maine

Light gun and a small frame kid equals recoil and not much fun for a young kid. I started my daughter years ago with a Rem. 1100 28ga. Virtually no recoil, she enjoyed it, and at 26 is still shooting it.