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I live in Virginia not far from the James River in the Chesapeake Bay watershed where there is a lot of waterfowl hunting. Knowing what a problem residual plastics can be for aquatic birds and fish, I think this is a good idea and worth the small additional cost. The key will be confirming that the wads made from biodegradable plastic can match current wad performance. http://www.bayjournal.com/article/latest_weapon_to_reduce_marine_debris_biodegradable_shotgun_wads

Joined: 03 Mar 2015 Posts: 126 Location: Duluth, MN

If they can maintain ballistic performance using less toxic shot alternatives, this seems like a no brainer. I would love to have these to use on my own land for clay's practice. I really hate the wads that stack up in my woods and fields. If they would degrade in moist conditions on land, I would use them in a heartbeat.

Joined: 03 Feb 2014 Posts: 325 Location: West Texas

I'm shooting the blue-green DR-16. We shoot some at my brother's place where he has a few cattle. I know from experience that cattle will pick up anything green and chew on it in the dead of winter. I've seen a cow swallow all but the very end of 6 feet of green garden hose on a cold January morning.. I walked up to her and withdrew it myself.

It concerns me. I don't want to be responsible for stopping up one of his cows digestive systems. I wish all wads were biodegradable and most especially that the DR-16 was some other color.

If you're really concerned about biodegradability, go with paper card wads and good old fiber (its just cellulose), felt or cork fillers. For over-powder seals that function equivalently to obturating plastic ones, you can use waxed cardboard (not the corrugated stuff) such as on old milk cartons (don't know if I could find those anymore in my area), or wax up some thick stiff paper (about the thickness of a shotshell box) yourself, and punch out little over-powder cups just like Winchester/Western used in the '50's. A fellow on the Low Pressure Group made a tool to do just that -- Mike Doerner. He had them tested in several loads by Tom Armbrust, side by side with obturating plastic over-powder wads, and found the performance to be indistinguishable. Doerner just punched out blanks about a quarter inch oversize in diameter, and pushed them through a die he made to form the cup. You can find the drawing for his die, as well as his test results on the LPG site. I think he backed up the cups with a normal .135 nitro card before seating his fillers. He did not find much trouble inserting the inverted cups, either. Of course you wouldn't need to use any type of obturating cup wad if your gun had the typical 3/4 inch forcing cones of guns from the 60's and before. Either way, an obturating over-powder cup helps the load perform better.

IF Nick is watching he can answer some of these questions . I just talked with him the other day and wish Ida seen this thread then . I do believe the original intent was for Bio's . The color thing probably could change with a legit problem . With the PIA it was getting the wads back this past yr , might be something to be contemplated for the future !!

Joined: 26 Apr 2010 Posts: 3177 Location: NCWa

The only bio one piece wads I have seen were 12ga and they were only available for a short time. I didn't get any of them. the thing that would concern me is shelf-life when loaded. I don't want the wad disintegrating while it is loaded and than having problems when the shell is fired.

Joined: 03 Mar 2015 Posts: 126 Location: Duluth, MN

I think the problem with the previous bio wads (Downrange OXO-BIO) was that they degraded very slowly and they would not work with non-tox loads (specifically steel). Doesn't make a lot of sense to create a Biodegradable wad that can't be used around wetlands.

That being said, from the above referenced article, it seems that these wads need bacteria present in water environments to break down. For that reason, I would assume they should have a good shelf life inside a shell where they are kept from contact with water.

My question is whether or not they would break down with moisture when laying on the surface of the ground. Also, will they work with less expensive no-tox shot (i.e. steel). For pasture clays at my own property, I am not particularly worried about lead contamination, but in our present political environment, I can envision a day when I would get in trouble for putting all that lead on the ground and be forced to clean it up. For that reason, I use primarily steel shot through modern guns when shooting on my own land. I would love to not have wads laying all over the place, however. . .

Joined: 15 Jun 2010 Posts: 1358 Location: Twin Cities, MN

Here's a link to the Down Range oxo-bios.

http://www.downrangemfg.com/index.php?option=com_zoo&view=category&Itemid=51

Don't know if they still make them. The only ones for sale I could find are the 1 1/8 oz wads for 12 gauge. I know that in Great Britain a lot of the driven bird shoots require the use of biodegradable ammo - fiber wads. No, I have not been there, just read about it. Where l grew up "driven bird" shooting involved an automobile and a pheasant in a ditch.
Regards,
Jeff

Joined: 21 May 2010 Posts: 603 Location: Victoria BC Canada

I have a 1910 edition of THE GUN and It's Developement, by W.W. Greener. It refers to a "Swedish Wad".

A cup wad with cavities at both ends, made of 'pulpy material". Apparently it tightened patterns and increasesd pressure with nitro powders.

This was in the early days when the transition to nitro powders was still young. Perhaps this idea might be resurrected if there is a serious effort to use bio-degradable wads exclusively. As I understand it, bio degradable plastic just unbinds the structure. The plastic sticks around for a VERY long time!

(A double ended cup reminds me of the Herters "Chalice" wad.)

Why do they call it BIO degrade? That would mean that bacteria, fungus,or insects will break down the plastic, That is not the case. Ultra violet light and temperature change deplete the plastisizer and the carbon bonds in the plastic and in about a year it becomes powdered bits that readily disperse . Regular plastic wads do the same but at a slower rate. The dove fields of Redrock AZ were covered with thousands of plastic wads of every description but after a year or so in that kind of desert heat they crunch like dry leaves under the foot. After tilling, planting and harvesting the milo fields that used to be there it was hard to even find one wad any where. By the end of November, after all the dove hunts were over, the fields were covered again.
I dont buy the crap about plastic not breaking down. By mislabeling a brown plastic and requiring it use just makes going hunting harder to do. I believe the whole restriction is just part of someones agenda

Joined: 03 Mar 2015 Posts: 126 Location: Duluth, MN

I think that 8s true of the OXO-BIO wads, but the wads referenced the the above article are actually digested by bacteria and thus are truly biodegradable.

Joined: 03 Feb 2014 Posts: 325 Location: West Texas

Absolutely everything is biodegradable including granite headstones, cars, crude oil, steel and concrete. The discussion should be couched in terms of half-life as nucleotides are. A shorter half-life is what is desired.

As my brother says, none of this stuff came from outer space (except it really did) we just moved it around a little.

Very Happy

The standard definition of a nucleotide is a group of molecules containing a phosphate group, nitrogen-containing bases and a sugar. The breakdown products of the bio-degradable plastic PHA, a linear polyester containing only carbon, hydrogen and oxygen, are not nucleotides.

Joined: 26 Apr 2010 Posts: 3177 Location: NCWa

Regardless as to their molecular construction, I think the issue is: will the wad breakdown/dissolve and return to the soil when exposed to weather (sun, rain, heat, cold, air, etc) within a reasonable amount of time 1-3 months). By whatever name, if the wad would do that, then it would be considered degradeable, possibly biodegradeable.

Joined: 03 Mar 2015 Posts: 126 Location: Duluth, MN

From the above article:

"Made from bacteria, PHA breaks down into its carbon and water constituents in both marine and fresh water.

The prototype PHA shotgun wad may take 1–2 months to disintegrate, said Jason McDevitt, director of technology transfer at the College of William and Mary. But McDevitt said there may also be ways to make the wad fracture as soon as it leaves the gun barrel, so that its fragments are no longer recognizable and biodegrade more quickly."

Not sure if it would breakdown on land . . .