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For many years I have been carrying a side x side 16 ga Ernst Thallman Werk made in Suhl Germany, as my primary grouse gun. I am curious how many others have one of these fine workhorse shotguns in their stable.

Joined: 09 Sep 2006 Posts: 863 Location: NoDak

Hi, guns made in Suhl (DDR), were made in the Ernst Thalmann Peoples Works (from where your gun comes from). Guns made at the E.T. Works were stamped with some of the great names in German Gunmaking, Merkel, Simson, Wolf, etc. All made on the same factory line, same guns, different names.

Also, if an East German gun was to be imported into the US (but not West Germany or other European nations) it had to be stamped "Made in Soviet Occupied Germany".

East German guns were also stamped with a "quality" stamp (found on the bbl lugs):

Q1 (since the early 60s) and “S” (until 1960) = superior quality over the average level of the world market
1 = good quality on the average level of the world market
2 = sufficient quality; adequate but below world market level

DDR guns can be wonderful works of art as well. Here's my DDR made 12ga Buhug Herbertus:

DDR made guns are often under appreciated, but can be very good quality guns.

I hope you have many long and healthy years shooting yours!

Greg

Joined: 26 Apr 2010 Posts: 3177 Location: NCWa

gjw-

So you're saying that my Merkel 201E (12 ga) which has markings indicating that it was made in July 1952, and was used for years at the Ramstein trap range before it was brought to the US by a returning serviceman should be marked how? It just says that it is Made in Germany. No East, West, Democratic, etc.

Joined: 09 Sep 2006 Posts: 863 Location: NoDak

Hi, there were 2 Merkels, one relocated in W. Germany, but he East Germans also took over the name. A lot of the smiths and craftsmen from the pre-war firm escaped to the west and the Merkel re-established there as well.

My sons Sauer Royal is marked "Made in Western Germany" and I have seen guns marked "Made In Germany" on guns made in the west. Check and see if there is a Quality mark like I posted in my first response. The West German firms NEVER stamped their guns with this mark. Sure way to tell.

Best!

Greg

Joined: 21 May 2010 Posts: 603 Location: Victoria BC Canada

I own a 12ga.Thalmann, purchased from a Canadian firm who bought container loads of surplus sporting guns from Sweden. Two American firms were also doing the same thing.

I keep it at my son-in Law's, as he might want to ask me to join him out in the Fraser River Delta for ducks (if in season). I also purchased an "Outstanding" qual.ity Merkell 16ga. SXS from the same source. As well, I bought some rolling blocks and some underlever shotguns and two cape-guns all but one in 16.

My first O/U, a Merkell 201 made in E. Germany, was purchased new when I was a Canadian cold-warrior in West Germany. There was a route to obtain them and they were quite common among the upper class level at hunting clubs. I competed in DJV, three event hunters shoots. (Trap, Skeet & rifle incl. running boar) It was fun, but I never passed above thre bronze "Nadel" (pin) level. The US gunclubs had an equivalent, but as the clay throwers were US, rather than ISU, it was considered less of a test than the original.

P.S; The Thalmann is a solid workmanlike gun. It shows experience, but is solid as a rock. I have never seen a German gun that was less than solid!

P.S: I traded off this gun during the summer (2017) for a custom made longbow> I now use my Husqvarna Model 610. for this purpose.

Carlos. I will put up a photo of my Thallman, it differs in design from my Suhl Simson and JP Sauer models as it has no side clips, cocking indicators, nor scalloped receiver. It has always been an admirable performer though and, to me, perfectly balanced for flushing grouse

Joined: 21 May 2010 Posts: 603 Location: Victoria BC Canada

Same for my Thalmann. No side scalops.

The Swedes seem to prefer their chokes full/fuller, so no tight cover upland duty for mine. I have an Husqvarna M610 SXS with normal chokes which is my favorite 12ga., after my 201 Merkell. The Merkell SXS 16ga. has mod/full chokes and is the best of all my shotguns.

My Thalmann is choked M/IM but it hasn't handicapped me. My hit percentage is 1 for 4 on grouse; whereas my hits with my IC/M Lucio Loyola sxs 16 is 1 for 7. If it wasn't for my Pudelpointer I'd probably be 1 for 12

Member Joined: 09 Aug 2004 Posts: 401 Location: Tennessee

I have seen it posted in several locations that the DDR guns started using the 'Q1' stamp about 1960. I recently purchased a lovely Merkel 16ga o/u with the Q1 stamp - and a proof date code of 155 - Jan 1955. Could Q1 have been used earlier than the accepted 'early 60's era?
Disregard. The Suhl proof house shows the 'Q1' mark as being used from 1950, not 1960.