16ga.com Forum Index
Author Message
<  16ga. Ammunition & Reloading  ~  Brass hull problem
jschultz
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 2:30 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 1624
Location: northwewst Wyoming

As many of you know, I'm an advocate of all brass hulls. I gave a pair of BSS's to my son along with 10 RMC brass hulls. While showing my granddaughter how to reload the hulls, I had problems inserting 1-piece plastic wads into the hull because of powder residue buildup.
Apparently, powder and gasses had caused a fouling/buildup on the inside of the hull and I had to clean each hull before a wad could be inserted. My son is going to try different wads suitable for straight wall hulls.
Fortunately, My 16 Ga, loads use card and fiber wads and after 10 years of loading the hulls, there has been no fouling or build up inside of the hull.
Has anyone experienced fouling and residue from using 1-piece plastic wads?

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
skeettx
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 2:38 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9455
Location: Amarillo, Texas

Yes, and I clean them before loading.
You sure it is powder residue and not plastic residue?

And if you shoot black powder and plastic wads you REALLY
get residue, AND it extends all the way down the barrel Smile

When I clean the 10 gauge after shooting Alcan hulls, MEC steel shot wads,
#3 shot, and single F black, you get ribbons of plastic.

Still, I do it and am aware of the result.

Mike

One POSSIBLE solution is to use a nitro card under the plastic wad. Of course you will have to work up your own load.


Last edited by skeettx on Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:45 am; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
byrdog
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 2:40 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Posts: 1498
Location: the Moosehorn

I shoot 14 ga plastic wads in 16ga Magtech brass that now use 209 primers. I have to run a 12ga bronze brush in a cordless drill before reloading them because the plastic gets smeared on to the inside surface. Paper or felt does not do that.

_________________
ALWAYS wear the safety glasses

If you take Cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like Prunes than Rhubarb does ----G.M/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
jschultz
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:42 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 1624
Location: northwewst Wyoming

Skeet, I shoot only smokeless powder. To clean my 16 Ga. hulls, I put all fired rounds into a tumbler overnight. The interior of the hulls are clean except for the mouth where glue residue remains. I then clean the hull mouths with a Tornado brush chucked up in my drill press

Initially, I tried card and fiber wads in the 20 and was not happy with the patterns. I then switched to 1-piece plastic and had good patterns from the get go. You guys know that my bird gun is a #2 AyA and I have not shot the 20's at birds in over 10 years.

Re cleaning: The 20 Ga. hulls spent the usual time in the tumbler, but I was running late and it is a long drive from WY to OH and I quickly boxed up the hulls. In OH I noticed the residue inside of the shells and tried to clean them with sandpaper. I eventually got them clean enough to accept a wad.

As mentioned previously, My son will be trying different recipes with different wads and hopefully he will get the right combination to reduce fouling and still get good patterns.

byrdog, where do you get 14 Ga. plastic wads?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
old colonel
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:30 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Dec 2008
Posts: 605
Location: Topeka, Kansas

I use RMC 16 and always clean them between loadings.

Powder residue could cause the issue you note in onlyone loading, especially the low pressure loads

_________________
Michael
Topeka, KS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:49 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1550
Location: Minnesota and Florida

Can't figure out why folks use plastic wads in brass hulls. Use the right sized card and fibre wads commensurate with the wall thickness of your hulls and all is fine. Frankly, I like the thin-wall Mag-Techs, as the larger wads seal better in the bore. Get your wads from Circle Fly. Old brass hulls are like thin like Mag-Techs. Mag-Tech got it right. Need to mess with patterns? -- Use a sleeve of Mylar around the shot (cut from overhead projector slides or transparent Mylar file folder sleeves). Maybe use buffer -- I haven't tried it; never thought I needed it. Need to open pattens? -- use a Polywad Spred-R device, or a paper card "X" device. Using black powder? -- then you've got bigger cleaning and pattern problems already without dealing with melting plastic one-piece wad units, which you will certainly do with black powder. If you're using black powder, you are already trying to do a very old-fashioned thing. It does not involve plastic. Get with it and love it or leave it. Same thing with brass shotshells in general. They were obsolete long ago for good reason, and I seriously doubt multi-piece paper hulls came along because they were less costly -- think of the equipment required to make them. I admit brass can be fun to fiddle with -- I've done it now and then. There is no ballistic advantage, nor any other advantage I can imagine. With brass I go smokeless, card and fiber, and that's it -- no particular cleaning problems. Tumble them like rifle/pistol brass? Sure, why not, but there's no plastic in mine, and just a thin carbon residue you could ignore for a few re-loadings. Using black powder? -- better off to use cards and fiber fillers in Federal paper hulls or the like, and then just toss-em.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
byrdog
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 4:42 am  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Posts: 1498
Location: the Moosehorn

The Clay Buster WW12 Orange measures 14ga it fits perfectly in a clean Magtech 16ga case. I have used this for Grouse out to 20 yards or so. It is a point and shoot load and never fails to connect.

_________________
ALWAYS wear the safety glasses

If you take Cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like Prunes than Rhubarb does ----G.M/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
UncleDanFan
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:07 am  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 06 Apr 2007
Posts: 3370
Location: The Great Northwet

I like the idea of brass, especially in my 1890's husky. The only thing that has kept me from trying it has been the cost of RMC hulls. If magtech hulls now have 209 primer pockets, then that would be a great deal, since a box of 25 magtechs is so much cheaper. Smokeless/fiber/card does seem like the way to go.

_________________
Gun art: www.marklarsongunart.com
Gallery art: www.marklarsonart.com

The man's prayer from the Red Green Show: "I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to. I guess."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
skeettx
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:10 am  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9455
Location: Amarillo, Texas

CBC says

Magtech considers all their components "factory fresh". This means they are made to the same standards as their factory loads. All shotshell brass hulls use large pistol primers. They were designed for use with cork, fiber or cardboard wads and are ideal for use with blackpowder.

For my brass hulls, I am using Alcan hulls and *57 primers

or Win/Rem brass hulls and pistol primers


Mike


Last edited by skeettx on Sun Jun 19, 2016 12:01 pm; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
jschultz
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:58 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 1624
Location: northwewst Wyoming

I hope that I have not misinterpreted a few of the posts.
RMC brass hulls are turned from solid brass and Magtech hulls are extruded. RMC hulls are of standard gauge specific dimensions, can be loaded with C&F or 1-piece plastic wads and use 209 primers.
Mag Tech hulls require large pistol primers and oversized wads.
I have not loaded Magtech hulls but have loaded the now defunct Double Hammer hulls. Double Hammer hulls were modified Magtech hulls in that the primer pockets were bored out to accept 209 primers.
The reason that I continue to load 16 Ga. RMC brass hulls is because of the outstanding patterns that I have obtained. If you search past posts of members who use RMC hulls you will discover that they to have experienced the same great patterns.
Even though I had the 20 Ga. RMC hulls for over 10 years, and before giving same to my son, I only loaded the hulls two times, one with card and fiber and once with 1-piece plastic wads. I was not happy with the C&F loads and went to 1-piece plastic wads and the patterns improved, but left a residue that I didn't notice until many years later, because I shoot a 16 Ga. almost exclusively.
For bird hunting applications I am very happy with my 16 Ga. RMC hulls reloaded with card and fiber wads and no longer load paper or plastic hulls Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
UncleDanFan
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 6:59 am  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 06 Apr 2007
Posts: 3370
Location: The Great Northwet

skeettx wrote:
CBC says

Magtech considers all their components "factory fresh". This means they are made to the same standards as their factory loads. All shotshell brass hulls use large pistol primers. They were designed for use with cork, fiber or cardboard wads and are ideal for use with blackpowder.

For my brass hulls, I am using Alcan hulls and *57 primers

or Win/Rem brass hulls and pistol primers

Mike


Thanks Mike. Will *57 primers work in a reloader or do they have to be inserted manually?

_________________
Gun art: www.marklarsongunart.com
Gallery art: www.marklarsonart.com

The man's prayer from the Red Green Show: "I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to. I guess."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jschultz
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:24 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 1624
Location: northwewst Wyoming

Re Double Hammer brass hulls: I failed to mention that in addition to drilling out the pocket to accommodate 209 primers, DH also added an inner base wad.
I bought a box of DH hulls and they came without reloading information.
I called the seller and was referred to Tom Armbrust Ballistic Research Inc. 815 385 0037.

I phoned Tom and we had a long enjoyable conversation and he supplied me with a variety of recipes to load. After spending a lot of time on my pattern board, I became a devotee of brass hulls. I was amazed to see the outstanding patterns that were obtained using specific recipes that call for card and fiber wads.

My love affair with DH hulls ended when an inner base wad dislodged and went part way down the barrel. My habit of peering down the barrels after the gun is opened saved the day and I no longer use DH hulls.

I don’t remember how I became aware of Rocky Mountain Cartridge, but when RMC was in Cody, WY I met Dave Casey, the original owner and we have become friends. Dave told me that RMC cases can be re-loaded in excess of 3k times and I probably will not live long enough to verify his claim. Very Happy

According to RMC any published gauge appropriate load found in reloading manuals or powder manufactures web sites for straight walled hulls will work in their brass hulls because they have the “same inside diameter” as plastic hulls. RMC hulls gives the reloader new recipes to explore. Very Happy

Over the the last 10 bird seasons I used RMC hulls loaded using C&F wads and I couldn't be happier. Yes, brass hulls take a lot more time to reload, are outrageously expensive, but to my thinking they provide a more personal element to reloading and by extension bird hunting.
I still smile when I insert the shiny hulls into my AyA and smile again when I catch the hull in my cupped hand, while Annie makes the retrieve. Very Happy Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
skeettx
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 11:58 am  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9455
Location: Amarillo, Texas

UDF

#57 primers will work fine in a Mec auto primer feeder.

I have made a depriming punch for the large pistol primers and have an old mec primer seating station to seat them.

With the old station you can switch around the post and base to prime large pistol primers






Sooooo, a Mec will load brass hulls just fine. I do not crimp, but use an over shot wad and Elmers School Glue

Mike

_________________
,
USAF RET 1971-95
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
old colonel
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:10 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Dec 2008
Posts: 605
Location: Topeka, Kansas

I know there our those of us who have been very happy with MAGTECH brass, I have not been. The reason is simple, they are made for black powder and the few smokeless loads I have tried have been inconsistent in terms of ignition, some were good, some sort of popped, and some in between. I weighed every charge, and used circlefly wads. Bottomline, for smokeless data available they breed low confidence in me.

Perhaps part of the reason I did not pursue the MAGTECH loading problem more was the RMC worked like a charm. I use them for both fibre and plastic and I am very happy with them. I now own eighty 2.5 in 16ga RMC and have some 2 3/4 on order along with some 24ga.

The inside dimension of the RMC 16 matches up plastic wads and 16 ga fibre.

Yes they are expensive, but I have yet to wear one out, much less have a primer pocket loosening. They are the rolls royce of hulls. And they are priced like that too.

Now the bad news. While it is touted that any 2 3/4 load can be used in them, I would not be so fast. Stick to federal hull data to be closer. I compared hull volumes by filling with water and weighed the water content for ten 2 1/2 cut down federals, cheddites, and Activ each and twenty RMC and found they compared best to Federals. Can't remember the numbers off the top of my head.

Further bad is to have loads tested in them the hull must have a hole drilled in it; so the desire to submit loads for testing is non-existent.

A minor issue is full length resizing. If you mean to shoot them from multiple guns you will discover different makers cut their chambers tighter than others. For a long time I only used them in my Belgian SLE and my Greener BLE. The brass fire formed to the chambers and they were close enough their were no issues. However when I went to use them in my Father's German 16 and later my Purdey they required resizing. It cost a simply die from CH4D and 1 1/4 in press from Lee as my MEC and Ponsness could not handle resizing easily.

Lastly, if you order the RMC 10 at a time there can be some variance in hull volume. This was particularly true between the old and new owner production. That said it was small enough not to worry about sorting them apart. However if you are more exacting than me, otrder a larger lot at a time. I did 30 from Casey and 50 from the new owner.

_________________
Michael
Topeka, KS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
old colonel
PostPosted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:24 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Dec 2008
Posts: 605
Location: Topeka, Kansas

PS reference using buffered loads in a MAGTECH or RMC for that matter, While in theory doable, in practice without tested data too risky compared to the benefit.

Buffering will raise chamber pressure and reloading buffered loads requires strict adherence to tested loads.

_________________
Michael
Topeka, KS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
All times are GMT - 7 Hours

View next topic
View previous topic
Page 1 of 2
Goto page 1, 2  Next
16ga.com Forum Index  ~  16ga. Ammunition & Reloading

Post new topic   Reply to topic


 
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB and NoseBleed v1.09