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Joined: 15 Jun 2010 Posts: 1358 Location: Twin Cities, MN

I like the idea of a specific gun for pheasants and another for grouse. A third 200E for sharptails, another for doves and you'll be getting somewhere.
I have never shot 5 or 10 patterns of a single load and counted pellet strikes. Just too lazy. It's possible to do so with a digital camera and a computer, but I just don't want the information that bad. Again, nice work.
Jeff

No brainier go with the 6's no holes in the pattern and more energy. I would guess the nickel plating might have saved more pellets from damage. Next test nickel plated #7's.

Dave
Your tests are a reiteration of what I posted earlier. #6 is a more consistent bird killer.

Guest

What jumps out at me are the significantly higher pattern percentages with the B&P wad and 6% antimony NP shot. With that performance it certainly tilts this to the 6's for pheasants. Now was it the wad, or the shot, or both?

The nickle plating makes the shot pretty but that is about all. I have used NP shot of many sizes I dont see the performance advantage in it. I have stopped using it and now I shoot Hard #6 for birds past 20yds like doves, Soft #6 for closer birds like grouse etc. The chilled shot opens sooner and there are more pellets at the fringe of the pattern. Without the antimony they are denser. Longer shots need more pellets in the center so a harder less deformed load opens later.
Did you know that antimony is more poisonous than lead.

Byrdog, you are correct that the nickel makes them pretty, not harder.

That said it is more than looks, early on I found that nickel shot resulted in significantly reduced feather draw (down feathers pulled into pellet holes in the bird) and made cleaning easier. This was especially true on Ruffed Grouse.

As to hardness, shopping and testing of shot has shown all nickel is not equal, some is as hard or harder than good magnum shot and some may as well be target trash. When I get good lot, I go back and buy a few bags, my last big purchase is still two bags from exhaustion and I am in the fourth season coming up,

I prefer to open my patterns with less choke more than soft shot

Byrdog, you are correct that the nickel makes them pretty, not harder.

That said it is more than looks, early on I found that nickel shot resulted in significantly reduced feather draw (down feathers pulled into pellet holes in the bird) and made cleaning easier. This was especially true on Ruffed Grouse.

As to hardness, shopping and testing of shot has shown all nickel is not equal, some is as hard or harder than good magnum shot and some may as well be target trash. When I get good lot, I go back and buy a few bags, my last big purchase is still two bags from exhaustion and I am in the fourth season coming up,

Guest

I doubt if the nickel plating itself had anything to do with my patterns. I just happened to have some and Precision Reloading, ay least according to their web site, starts out with 6% antimony shot which is about as hard as you'll find before they plate the shot. The Lawrence 7's is at 5% antimony, so I suppose it's about the same.

I've compared Precision Reloading's NP shot to Ballistic Product's version with the old "pliers test," and the Precision Reloading's version was noticeably harder while Ballistic Product's seemed butter soft.

Anyway, regardless of the shot used, I suspect the B&P wad creates a tighter pattern.

To put this at rest at least in my head, this next week I'll load up some of the 1 1/8 oz loads and compare the B&P wad patterns to the Federal 12S3 wad patterns with the only variable being the wad.

BD , did you say antimony or alimony !!?? Embarassed

Dave , you are a trouper with this project and should be paid by some co !! I'd just have trouble remembering which load had that great pattern so I'd stop there !! I believe at BP , they say how their copper plated shot is and they say low antim with a plating . Saw this phenom when weighing out loads for the super mag - couldn't understand why the CP was the heavier shot . May carry over to the nickel shot . Mikey C did a hardness test of any shot he could get his hands on - back in these posts - just can't find it - may be helpful ! I have some old *7 and I'd not hesitate to use it .

I've been using gamebore's 2.5" #7 loads in my right barrel for a while, but I find them a bit light for long range wild chukars. Prefer 1oz 6's in the right and 1 1/8oz 5's in the left. Ideal for close to medium range birds though.

Joined: 09 Mar 2016 Posts: 754 Location: Mn.

Dave I'm very interested in what you find with the different wads for patterns. What Jeff is talking about with digital pictures and software is the shotgun insight program. Neil Winston past president of the ATA and who is a mathematician\statistician and lives up in the Cities has done a lot of testing with different components over the years and uses a minimum of 10 shots for each load and runs them through the shotgun insight program. Even though I swear some wads create tighter patterns than others he has never been able to verify it and feels that wads have the least impact of any of the variables. Of course this is not applicable to spreader wads.

I use #6 for grouse and #5 for pheasants so you know which load I prefer Smile

I have 2 12 ga. guns that come in at 6 pounds each and have found with a 15/16" Kick EEZ pad I can shoot 1 1/4 oz. loads at 1200 fps without issue out of them. And I am very recoil sensitive, but not all guns are appropriate for recoil pads. And they are heavy so change the balance of the guns.

Know that you have the W&M shoot today but if you have any left over energy and desire Lewiston is throwing sporting clays tomorrow morning.

Guest

Thanks for the feedback, guys!

Cold Iron, Neil Winston's findings are interesting. Who am I to doubt him?? Just the same I'm going to compare the B&P's to the Federals and see what happens.

I can't make Lewiston tomorrow (in-laws coming) although I'd love to and see if I can keep my shooting eye going. I ended up 2nd out of 47 shooters today at W&M with an 88/100 and won 40 bucks! My 16 gauge Silver Hawk still seems to like me.

Actually I tied with Jim Foster, but I was able to claim the prize via the tiebreaker criteria. It was a fun shoot! Larry Brown gave me some Gamebore 1 1/16 oz. 6's to try in this 12 gauge 200E that I'm patterning in this thread. I had promised Larry I'd bring this Merkel to show him today and I forgot it at home! Sad

Duh!

Member Joined: 30 Oct 2010 Posts: 40 Location: illinois

I use1 ounce 7NP shot in my first barrel or first 2 shells when using my Model 11 or Ithaca 37.Never have had the need to put more than an ounce in any of my loads.

If I had to choose one size shot for my upland hunting (grouse, woodcock and now, regrettably only preserve pheasants; it would be #7. Were I in SD it would be my 1st shot followed by 5 or 6 for wild birds.

Joined: 09 Mar 2016 Posts: 754 Location: Mn.

That was some great shooting Dave, congrats! Haven't seen Larry in about 4 years but a sure bet to get him to show is a SxS Smile