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Mr. 16 gauge
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:54 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 44
Location: Troy, MI

Has anyone out there used there 16 gauges to take turkey or geese? I have been doing some handloading trying to find a suitable load for both birds.....I think I have it for turkeys; my goose loads are waiting to be tested. It's unfortunate that there is a lack of good loads for these birds in factory offerings....part of the blame I place at the feet of the gun writers; they will sing the praises of the 3" 20 gauge for such use, but decry the 16 gauge as being "too small"...Huh? Confused
At any rate, I think it can be done successfully and hope to prove it throughout the next couple of years...not so much as a 'stunt', but to prove that the 16 gauge is MORE viable than the 3" 20 for such undertakings if the proper ammo is available.

Any thoughts?

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Wolfchief
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:31 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Oct 2004
Posts: 782
Location: Indiana

Mr. 16 gauge: You raise an interesting question; on the surface of it, we know it can be done---generations ago, hunters in the East and South used the 16 for turkeys, geese and anything else that flew----and that was before Winchester perfected the plastic wad and the ammunition was nowhere near as good then as now. People didn't know it couldn't be done, so they did it. That having been said, there is nothing in particular that the 16 needs to prove; and for both of the birds you mention, in regard to everyday "rough and tumble hunting----I'd take the 12......

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Twice Barrel
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:13 pm  Reply with quote
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I don't hunt turkey or goose as it is too darn hard to get my setters to hold point on them, but I do hunt Sage Grouse and my gun of choice is one of my Fox 16 gauges choked Skeet 1 and Skeet 2 or IC and Mod.

For those not familiar with the Sage Grouse a mature male will weigh in at about 8 pounds (pretty close to the weight of a snow goose I should think). My load for Sage's is an ounce and an eight of copper plated sixes at 1220 fps. I haven't lost one yet.

So my assesment is yes a 16 gauge will work for Turkey and Geese, you might have to limit your shots to 35 - 40 yards to insure clean kills and I would choose Bismuth or Tungsten-Matrix over steel for waterfowl.
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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:38 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 26 Apr 2005
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Took a 25# gobbler a few years back with a 16ga. Old Stevens. Used the Federal Premium Mags (1 1/4 oz of copper-plated 6's). Worked just fine.
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john555
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:56 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 76
Location: western canada

Mr 16

I find your question a little irratating as I have heard the same question ever since I started hunting some fifty years ago.. When I was a kid and started hunting with my best friend, we both used sixteen gauges. His was a Sauer double barrel and mine was a Remington double. We used store bought ammunition which might include Dominion, Peters, Remington and Federals. We hunted ducks, pheasants, grouse, chukars, pidgeons, canadian geese and brandt. The old doubles performed as they were designed and I never felt under gunned and we both put a lot of game on our families tables.
I still own the Remington along witha lot of other makes and actions, all Sixteen gauge. It does not seem to matter if I am shooting trap, skeet or birds, there is always some fool saying that he is surprised that the sixteen performs as well as it does.

The question I put to them and to you is - WHY NOT?
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Mr. 16 gauge
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:02 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Posts: 44
Location: Troy, MI

Gee, John.....I'm so sorry that this "fool" posed a question that "irritated" you............... Evil or Very Mad

I didn't pose the question "why",....if anything, I proposed the question "how?"; I'm willing to bet that when you shot those geese and brant you were using lead shot, and of a sufficient size to take those birds....with todays nontoxic restrictions and fewer offerings than there were servral years ago, I was wondering if someone had found a load that workd for them. I am currently working on some handloads to test with #2 bismuth shot for geese. AS for turkeys, up until a couple of years ago there were NO copper plated loads of any kind, and those loaded with heavy payloads usually patterned poorly. There are still NO commercially made buffered loads in the 16 gauge.

Dont' bother replying to this post.........your last one has pissed me off suffciently enough, thank you very much! Mad

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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 10:15 am  Reply with quote
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Boys!...Boys!...let's play nice now. Wink Actually, John, you are going to hear that question for the rest of your life. Most of us younger guys have not been fortunate enough to have had your years of experience. We have also been bludgeoned by Madison Ave. and the mainstream Gun Press into thinking the 16 ga. has been obsolete since the advent of the 3" 20 ga..
That line of crud has not really changed much, and American ammo companies are still dragging their feet over the 16 ga., especially when it comes to quality light loads. Seems to interfere with their 20 ga. sales they think.

I love my 16 ga. Citori now and have come to realize that it will do 90% of what any average 12 will do, including geese and turkey. However, not to many years ago, I actually passed by two of the same model gun on the rack at a local shop, both at a giveaway price, because of the "dumbing down" I'd gone through. It is just by mere chance that I learned the error of my ways from a kind soul of about your years, and maybe with your experience too. Now I can't imagine being without my 16. Please don't lose patience with us younger guys. We need your influence and wisdom. Thanks.
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john555
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 11:10 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 76
Location: western canada

Everybody

Sorry about the last post. I really did not mean to piss anybody off as I really enjoy this chat room. As one gets older, one gets tired of hearing untruths and my patience apparently is getting short. Having enjoyed the so called "glory" days of hunting in Western Canada with lead shot and very little hunting pressure, i suppose I am a little spoiled and a little short.

Again I offer my apologies to you and keep up the fine discussions.

Regards
John
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 9:13 am  Reply with quote
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John, if you would, please tell us folks what the situation is as to gun ownership in Canada. We here a lot of rumors here in the lower 48, but I'd like to hear it from someone who has experienced the whole matter from before to after. Is gun control rigorously enforced nationwide or more regionally like it is in the States? Also, if a U.S. citizen wanted to purchase a rifle or shotgun in Canada, is it possible? Can we bring a hunting gun with us to hunt or a target gun for a shoot? Is it a big hassle? If so, has it affected the outdoors trade?
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Steve Smith
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 11:16 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Apr 2005
Posts: 29
Location: Traverse City, MI

Guy,
You didn't ask me and I'm sure John has more insight, but I can tell you that since Canada started tightening down it's gun regulations, I've been to Saskatchewan a couple times, Nova Scotia, and Ontario, and never had a problem. There's a form you have to fill out that allows you to bring in three guns, though you can bring in more -- not sure what the limit is. The fee is $50 Canadian, not per gun, though.

The Canadian Customs people have always been very polite and accomodating -- much nicer than some (a very few) of our guys when I come back into the states. Since 2001 I can understand the security, though not the rudeness, Smith and his duck gun hardly being a threat to the republic. Don't fly into Montreal if you can help it, by the way, where Yank-tweaking seems to be an old and honored tradition.

Speaking of coming back, make sure you register your gun with the US Customs people before you go into Canada as proof you didn't buy it there and are bringing it back through. The registration is painless, though you have to be near a Customs office to do it. You can take up to 200 rounds of ammunition into Canada with you, and that's total, not per gun, so if you take a backup, make sure it's the same gauge. If you have your Canadian gun papers -- and you have to have them on you when you have the gun in your possession -- you can buy ammuntion in Canada if you need to. If you want to borrow a gun in Canada instead of bringing one in, you still have to fill out some sort of paperwork -- probably knowing the serial numbers etc. of the gun you're going to borrow? John would know.

Most of the Canadians I've hunted with, law-abiding though they may be, don't think much of the gun regulations.

Hope some of this helps, and, John, if I'm off-base, let me know; we get a lot of inquiries of this type and I want to get it right.

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john555
PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 9:47 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 76
Location: western canada

Steve
You have pretty well covered it. The laws for shotguns and hunting rifles are the same for me when entering U.S.A for bird hunting. The only problem you folks might have is when you attempt to enter Canada with handguns and what our goverment calls " restricted weapons ". The laws for possesion of handguns up here are very strict. An example would be that in Canada you require a permit to transport your handgun from your house to the target range. Restricted weapons are full automatics, military type assualt rifles and " Saturday Night Specials " handguns. You would be wise to contact Canada Customs before attempting entry with this type of firearm.

Guy
Under the Canadian Firearms Act you are required to have a Federal Firearms Licence in order to own and purchase firearms. A licence can be obtained after passing a written and oral exam on firearms safety. Of course there is an examination fee. You must also submit to a criminal background check. All firearms must be registered with the Federal Gun Registry with a registration fee for each firearm. Possession of an unregistered firearm is a criminal offence and you could face jail time if prosecuted. Gun stores require that you produce your Firearms Licence before you can purchase ammunition, powder, lead, primers, and firearms.When you purchase a new firearm, you are not allowed possession till the firearm is registered. The gun shop will usually take care of the paperwork and within an hour depending on the intelligence of the civil servent at the Gun Registry, you can take the firearm home.

The police have very broad powers under the Firearms Act , almost akin to martial law. Luckey for us, they are choosing not to enfore the Act unless there is a complaint. For example- If I still had gun racks in my pickup and had a firearm in plain view of the public ( back window ) the police could confiscate the firearm and I would be facing criminal charges. Go figure that one out.

There is talk by the Federal Goverment of discontinuing the Firearms Act as they are apparently 900 million overbudget on administration of this pink elephant.

I hope that answers your questions as I have to call it a night and take the old bird dog for a run.

Regards
John
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 4:54 am  Reply with quote
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Thanks to the both of you. I guess we still have it fairly good in the U.S. with the NICS system. Here in Mass. the laws are somewhat Draconian. We have to reapply for a new Licence to Carry for handgun ownership every four years at 100.00 each time. This license also allows the bearer to own rifles and/or shotguns. Each individual town gun licencing officer has broad powers of vetoing an application and can refuse to issue without comment.

Mass residents who don't wish to carry a handgun but wish to keep a rifle or shotgun must possess an FID card that has to be reapplied for every four years as well at the same fee. Supposedly, the licencing officer has less discretion here, but in practice, there is no difference. If the licencing officer refuses to issue, for whatever reason, then any firearms in possession must be relocated to a licencee that can keep them under law until the applicant can sue the officer for infringement of rights.

Some towns will not issue at all. Some are very restrictive, and some are pretty fair. It is almost feudal. I happen to live in a town where the licencing officer has been very decent to me. I also belong to two gun clubs and have an excellent reputation. however, each time I apply for renewal, I reenter a firearms safety course and show proof of completion. It helps grease the wheels.

I'm hoping that Mass streamlines the system with a shall issue clause for applicants who take a state approved firearms safety course and pass the background check. It would improve the system by not letting each town act as its own fifedom. Until then, Mass gun owners must be very selective which town they choose to live in.
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john555
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 7:28 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 76
Location: western canada

Guy
I am surprised about your gun laws. I thought in the U.S.A. things were much more relaxed with your right to bear arms in the national constitution and the strong public support of the N.R.A. As far as each town having a gun register, you certainly must go through a lot of good whiskey.

Regards
John
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Parker Trojan
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 8:36 am  Reply with quote
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Jesus, 16gaguy, I thought that California was the home of all the crackpot antigun, antihunting lawmakers with Joe Nation and others proposing bills to ban dove hunting and to put vegan dishes in school cafeterias but Mass. has tougher rules for the average scattergunner. Guess I'll stay here a while longer; don't like snow anyway!
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mdoerner
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2005 7:29 pm  Reply with quote
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Location: Parma, OH

I think I'll stay right here in Ohio. Other than the shenanigans about concealed carry, Ohio is pretty much "cash and carry" after the NCIS check (which for those of you not from the USA is a telephone check to make sure you're not a convicted felon trying to purchase a firearm). Hopefully the new Florida legislation Jeb Bush signed into law about "standing your ground" will begin to filter through to other states as well.....

Mike Doerner
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