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Joined: 07 Nov 2014 Posts: 44 Location: cuero, texas

I, too, am using that load in lead right now and am eager to learn about the Itx pressure and velocity. I want to thank you for sharing with all of us. I hope you have a great hunting season this year. Thank you, Tom K

Member Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Posts: 2168 Location: Florida

My latest try .

Hull : 16ga Federal 2 3/4” – Once Fired
Primer : CCI 209 Magnum
Powder: Alliant Steel 21.0 grains
Wad : PT-1680 (VP80) 4 Slits with (1) BPI 1/8” 20ga cork in cup
Shot: ITX10 #4 1 1/8 oz
Crimp 6 Fold .055 deep

1164 fps Ev19 10566 psi Ev 900 10/5/16 75 degrees

Test by Tom Arburst .

Tom seems to think that I can add another grain of powder and get 1200 fps or a little better and still be good on pressure . I am going to give it one more try with steel powder , if it doesn't make it I will go to a different powder .

Joined: 20 Jun 2011 Posts: 119 Location: Illinois

Mark thanks for your effort, I thought that load would have yielded higher velocities or at least lower pressures. Are you using federal hulls that had lead or steel in them originally? The reason I ask is below

Has anyone ever heard of there being two different Federal 16 ga hulls? The reason I ask is because while loading my Federal hull sp16 1 1/16oz ITX10 load I had federal steel hulls and federal lead hulls. The steel hulls would load perfect every time but each time (3 times) I loaded the lead hulls I could see the shot sat higher in the crimp and each time the shell would buckle when I tried to crimp it.

Upon further inspection the head stamps on each hull were different Both said 16 ga made in USA but the spacing was different. The steel hull was skived, the lead hull was not. I dont have any tool to measure but the steel hull seemed to have a thinner plastic hull. Both had paper base wads. I haven't yet, but will fill each with water and weigh them to see if there is a capacity difference, but based on how differently they loaded I am guessing there is.

Mike

Member Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Posts: 2168 Location: Florida

The Fed hulls I use are all from Lead loads . Never had any of the ones that where steel shot .

The older lead shot hulls are stiffer or thicker plastic ( never really checked) and they are less likely to collapse during the crimp cycle .

Joined: 15 Dec 2005 Posts: 287 Location: missouri

Here's the old style Federal Steel loads on the left and the newer style on the right, Older style are more heavily ribbed and have a bit more capacity than the newer style does, black print on old ones silver on newer ones
[URL=http://s1218.photobucket.com/user/Joe_Speroni/media/IMG_0114_zpsbbfdirgj.jpg.html]

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Joined: 20 Jun 2011 Posts: 119 Location: Illinois

The results are in. I will start with the good

Originally a BPI load that called for 28 grains of longshot

Cheddite Hull (once fired)
Cheddite primer
24.7 gr of longshot
BPI VP80 3 slits, 1/4"cork(20ga), 1/4"felt(20ga) w/ mylar wrap
7/8oz ITX 13 #4
16ga overshot card
6 fold crimp

1. 1437 11000
2. 1462 12200
3. 1474 12400
4. 1467 12300
5. 1439 11100

avg 1455 11800

This load has speed to spare so I will probably drop down to 24 grains or 23.5.

Now for the not so good

Federal Hull
Win 209 primer
26.8 gr longshot
Remington SP16
1 1/16 oz ITX 10 #4
6 fold crimp

1. 1293 10700
2. 1419 12600
3. 1393 11600
4. 1437 13900
5. 1305 10400

avg 1369 11840

EV 144 3500

As you can see this load had consistency issues. #1 and #5 are 2000PSI above the lead 1 1/8oz Hodgdon load this was based off of which is what I was hoping for. Tom seems to think it was a powder migration issue with the combo of the Fed hull and the sp16 wad. I don't know where else the variations could have come from. I thought i did a fairly good job putting them together, Everything was measured by hand, consistant wad pressure, crimps all looked beautiful.

What does everyone think about the issue with this load?

Well hunting season starts in 10 1/2 hours so I will probably discontinue testing until next spring. I hope everyone was able to take away some knowledge from these test loads.

Mike

Joined: 13 Oct 2015 Posts: 348

Really great info Mike, thanks for doing the work and posting it!

The HW13#4 (or ITX in this case) is of interest... I guess this is the whole longshot being too high pressure thing? Dropping from 28 to 24.7 and still overpressure, wow.

Couldn't begin to comment on the 2nd, haven't looked at itx10 at all really.

Good luck hunting!

Joined: 15 Dec 2005 Posts: 287 Location: missouri

mcrewz, for what its worth, I have seen base wad variation in Federal 16 hulls, particularly associated with steel loads compared to lead. I don't know if it had to do with the lots of ammo (just certain lots), or if it had to do with type of shell (lead vs. steel), but I have run on to numerous Steel hulls that have a very low paper base wad. My mec jr. won't even seat a new primer in them, with the primer protruding about a 16th of an inch at the bottom of stroke. Therefore, more case capacity, every thing else being equal. Since I only load these hulls with very low pressure STEEL quail loads, I just push the primer on in, and away I go. However, I might look into it more if I was loading heavier pressure loads, which is what this thread is all about.

Why do you have to use a vp80 wad with ITX? Wouldn't going to a Z-16 wad lower pressures? I thought the whole point to ITX is that it's soft enough not to harm barrels. Question

Joined: 07 Nov 2014 Posts: 44 Location: cuero, texas

This entire thread has left me rather depressed about ITX and the safety/reliability of my BPI manual data. I care about my guns and find using the modern shotgun/steel disgusting. I think I'll just quit duck hunting before I will do that. I have been using 7/8 oz #6 ITX, 18 gn of PB, Z-16 wad, Fed hull, Fed 209 A primer with great satisfaction of performance on ducks. BPI list this load at 9200PSI/1210FPS. I guess I should send Tom A. some shells for testing. Good luck to everyone, Tom K.

Member Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Posts: 2168 Location: Florida

Tom your load my be fine , here is a tested load off the spread sheets that is similar .

Fiocchi 16 7/8 oz PB 18 Fio 616 BPI Z 16 1229 7,442 Dave Miller 16 gauge forum

Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 1308 Location: Western WA

UncleDanFan,

VP80 is used because 1 1/8 oz ITX it will not fit in Z16 or SP16 wads. Light ITX loads might be fine in Z16.

Member Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Posts: 2168 Location: Florida

It's not about all the shot being in the wad , it's about the 1 1/8oz load fitting in the hull .