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jschultz
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:57 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 1624
Location: northwewst Wyoming

Annie gets a variety of minerals to preclude joint issues.
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JonP
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:13 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 694
Location: MN

I have been feeding a high quality fish based food for years and have seen no joint problems.
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tramroad28
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:18 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 625
Location: Ohio..where ruffed grouse were

Despite feeding a top kibble, I have given joint supplements to dogs edging past 10.....and, I could imagine witnessing a positive response.
Was that because there was a positive response or did I simply see what I wanted to see....or was a positive response driven by something else and of whatever duration?
That is the problem with anecdotal evidence.....direct and transferrable links.
Not to mention dogs with genetic issues thrown in the mix and confusing the entire situation...in both directions.

However, they are our dogs and depend upon us to consider, imo, beyond tests and trials and on to "I hope".
As I am prone to erring on the side of Maybe re pups....I would give joint supplements again....at the same life stage and for the same reasons.
The supplement chosen may again be Cosequin or it may be another......I do not know now what the future will deliver in terms of options and the demand of a decision is not there at present.

Personally, I can not imagine at least trying a joint supplement when the consideration arises......our dogs try often enough.
The tradeoff price is cheap given that try of the dog.
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JNW
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 8:11 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Jun 2010
Posts: 1358
Location: Twin Cities, MN

Joint problems in dogs are multi factorial, so that makes it difficult to treat them all one way. There's "regular" arthritis, immune mediated arthritis (which can occur with Lyme and other tick-borne infections), injuries like partial ACL tears and also surgical repairs. Some of my patients have all of these problems. So, each case is different.
The human literature goes back and forth on which ingredients, and in which combinations, actually work the best. MSM goes in and out of favor. Glucosamine, EFAs and now krill oils seem to be the basics.
I have patients with severe arthritis that are on a joint supplement, EFAs, an NSAID like Rimadyl, tramadol, gabapentin, cold laser therapy, accupuncture and physical therapy. I have some very committed owners and these dogs are doing well and still happy.
Joint supplements are really just the first level of therapy for joint problems. I'm planning on starting my current dog, Ned, on supplements when he's 7 or 8 in an attempt to stave off future problems. No scientific data to show this will help, but it seems logical. Having just lost my older dog, Bond, there's almost nothing I won't do to keep this guy around longer.

Jeff
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rdja
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:22 pm  Reply with quote
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Location: SW Ohio

I personally think that various dogs with different problems that all LOOK the same to us, will respond differently to different products, thus the need to some dogs to try different products or combinations of products. My personal dog has some arthritis in her right carpus, to the point of being 3 legged lame first thing in the morning. Which she always warms out of in about 10 minutes of running around the yard. Since starting Dasquin, that has not been even a limp from that leg. The proof will be in the pudding of a cold winter's day though. Various supplements, Adequate injections, acupuncture (IF you can find someone who really knows what they are doing). and I am a huge fan of Laser therapy. Cannot say enough about it, have one in my practice and even though it does not make a ton of money for the investment, I would not be without it. Using it on my own lower back right now.

Quality supplements is key, there is finally an independent labs that will test supplements (NASP, I think), but not a lot of supplements are doing that yet. Supplements are considered nutritionals, and are not regulated by the FDA. So you have to use a product from a quality company.

Finally there is no evidence I have read that shows any benefit to giving joint supplements to younger dogs.
Its bad enough for us to get old but heart breaking when our favorite friend gets old and cannot understand why their body will not keep up.

Nate DVM
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rudyc
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:34 pm  Reply with quote
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Location: S.E. Wisconsin

Our Dixie is now 10 years old and we found out she had bi-lateral hip dysplasia at 8 months.

We have gone the whole route with nsaids, Tramadol, Gabapentine, joint supplements, acupuncture, Adaquan injections and cold laser.

She is now getting Ichon injections (generic Adaquan) and cold laser treatments as needed, They work for her, when we first started them, my wife and I were both reluctant to admit they were working. We wanted them to work, however, we did not want to be jaded (hopeful) into thinking they worked if they didn't. After a couple-three laser treatments and a series if injections, there was no denying they worked. She recovers quicker after hunting or a workout and has a youthful giddy-up in her gait now.

We still have her on Phycox and Dasquin(joint supplements daily and use Previcox (an nsaid) on days when she shows a bit of distress.

She is still a machine out in the field as long as we limit out hunts to a couple of hours or less. Seems these day a couple hour hunt is fine with me as well.

Find a Vet with experience with hunting or trials dogs and put your faith in him/her is my recommendation.

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Dave in Maine
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:09 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Sep 2010
Posts: 1972
Location: Maine

Chicago wrote:
A buddy just sent me this supplement link. Not sure how cost effective it is, I haven’t looked. He generally checks things out pretty well, but cost would not be an issue for him.

https://naturesfarmacy.com/

Good Hunting,
Mike


The Nature's Farmacy folks are great to deal with. They provided the pancreatic supplement my Sasha needed for the last 2 years of her life b/c her pancreatitis made it almost impossible for her to digest anything.
Highly recommend them.

As to supplements, I gave her Phycox for 3 or 4 years, once she started showing some gimpyness in her hips. Worked really really well- after a couple weeks the gimp went away. I credit that with giving her another 3 years or so. Phycox, I got from K-V Pet Supply, who are also exceptionally nice folks out in Nebraska. They also have a mail-order pharmacy, so you can get the meds cheaper if your vet sends in the scrip.

Highly recommend them, too.

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Cheyenne08
PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:43 pm  Reply with quote
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Location: Cheyenne, Wy

I have tried a whole bunch of different remedies for over 30 years. None sadly helped very much. When the hips go, in my opinion, it is over.

One vet wanted $5,000.00 per hip. I loved my dog, but didn't have that kind of money, the dog was over 10 years old, and of course, no guarantee it even was going to work.

They don't have anything for humans in a supplement that works worth a damn, I know, I have tried them all, why do we expect miracles in a pill for our four legged buddies?

Dale

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goathoof
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:18 am  Reply with quote
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Location: eastern oregon

Our rescue dog we got ten years ago needed surgery at their clinic before we could take custody. She was a street dog in baja and probably was hit by a car because they removed her left femur head. She had a limp for a about six months, but has been walking and running 1-3 miles per day for the last 10 years; all without the ball of her femur. She is anywhere from 12 to 15 years old now - we just do not know her previous history.
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mtbirder
PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:36 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 05 Nov 2016
Posts: 189
Location: Montana

I realize this is an oldy, but for some of us, our 16's (well me at least) would be of no use without our dogs. And keeping 'em out in the field to us as long as possible is a big deal.
I see some mention of Adequan in this topic.
My 11 year old girl had TPLO surgeries on both sides when she was around 7 1/2 years old. Luckily I had access to a vet to has much experience with this procedure. Nonetheless, two procedures spanning a total of just over 6 months of brutal rehab and recovery, had me nervous she wouldn't be her pre injury(s) world class athlete self.
My vet highly recommended Adequan, 125 ml bimonthly for her 60 lbs body weight.
Her recovery was amazing. She was finally off leash on July 1'st that summer and after continuing rehab for the remainder of the summer, she was hunting high mountain blue grouse that Sept 1.
Fast forward over four years later, she is still hunting hard, I do not hunt her for prolonged multiple day trips - but she is still what I consider amazing.
Granted she was in outstanding shape going into the surgeries and she has also been on Dasaquin w/MSM since she was 4, but I am happy I put her on
the Adequan.
I do not know the result had I not followed this course, but a Vet once told me - if it works, don't fix it.
Anecdotal I know....
Any DVM's on here that have current knowledge about Adequan, any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Although she currently has a badly broken claw (she is a bird dog....) and is out of action for now, she's still a machine......
[URL=http://www.jpgbox.com/page/55544_600x400/] [/URL]
I forgot to mention my dogs do and have always eaten a salmon based kibble.....
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byrdog
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:44 am  Reply with quote
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I have two old setters both 11 yrs They have pain and stiffness from arthritis and they hurt after being active .I have used Rimaddel and Tramadol with mixed results. I have found plain aspirin helped them best.
I have acute chronic arthritis myself. I have read reams of stuff about supposed relief from supplements . The usual suspects really do nothing so dont waste your money on them. Feed high quality dry food and hope the genetics will work in the dogs favor and arthritis is not in the dogs future.

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UncleDanFan
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:18 pm  Reply with quote
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I've been giving my 9 yr old setter 1500mg glucosamine tablets with his food once a day with fantastic results.

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Chicago
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:41 pm  Reply with quote
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The OP was looking for a cost effective treatment so I didn’t originally mention this treatment. I have used Adequon with two dogs and my observation would be it helped both dogs. It isn’t going to repair a damaged joint and it is a prescription drug. In addition there is a load up period of 8 weeks where you give the dog the shot twice a week, then once a week, once every other week and finally monthly (or this is close).

After the load up I keep giving the shot once a month because my dogs both had chronic issues. One dog was unilaterally dysplastic in one hip and the other dog has some type of front leg issue, maybe tendinitis, maybe a sore wrist. My Vet lets me give him the shots and I just call when I need a new bottle.

The drug is artificial joint fluid and I don’t believe it can do any harm, but maybe the Vets will come back and provide some professional commentary.

Whether or not it is effective can only be determined by observation. For me I just notice a decrease in both the degree of lameness and frequency. Not exactly empirical evidence, but the difference is quite pronounced. My Vet’s tell me sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t.

Good Hunting,
Mike
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mtbirder
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:49 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 05 Nov 2016
Posts: 189
Location: Montana

Cost effective is all in the eyes of the beholder. I wouldn't consider my girl's Adaqaun habit Very Happy inexpensive, but after what I spent for a pair of TPLO surgeries.... and the DVM who performed them was by far the most reasonable (as well as recommended) I found anywhere near my locale.
Every single penny worth it and more.
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JNW
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:24 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Jun 2010
Posts: 1358
Location: Twin Cities, MN

I’m a big fan of Adequan therapy. I’ve seen it do amazing things for patients with severe arthritis. It doesn’t work wonders for everyone, but I have scores of clients who swear by it. Works best along with an oral glucosamine supplement.
Jeff
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