16ga.com ~ View topic - Are Winchester model 21 shotguns really worth the money?

Joined: 29 May 2016 Posts: 79 Location: Burke Co, GA

No.

SRH

Joined: 27 Oct 2014 Posts: 33 Location: Left Coast

4th from the right.
1940 16 gauge, 26" WS1/WS2. 6 lbs 6 ounces

Joined: 26 Apr 2010 Posts: 3177 Location: NCWa

Joined: 16 Mar 2013 Posts: 162 Location: York, PA

Joined: 13 Jun 2009 Posts: 696 Location: WA/AK

Member Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 1257 Location: Nebraska

Unless you really want one, I'd say they're not worth asking prices. Especially at 7k which seems to me the point CSMS is trying to set for them. 4-5K seems more right to me.

I had 2 16s of 1940 manufacture with ejectors and double triggers along with 26" barrels. The one I sold was an ounce under 6lbs on my scale, a restock with heavier wood and a BT to replace the splinter FE added about 14oz. Much can be done with stocking.

*Last edited by 16gaugeguy on Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:17 pm; edited 1 time in total*

From What I've gathered from those who know, John Olin was a die hard waterfowler who was looking to have an SxS designed primarily for his favorite sport. Upland hunting was not nearly as high on his agenda. So the Model 21 was built like a T-34 tank. But J. Olin had unlimited funds, so it was no big thing if he dropped one in the water occasionally or got it exposed to a bit too much ocean spray. Most of the rest of us would be freaking out.

The few 16 ga Model 21 SxS guns I ever handled felt heavier than needed. They all felt somewhat heavier than my Citori O/U models, and my AyA Matador, and did not feel anywhere near as lively as a good upland gun should IMHO. The owners told me their guns averaged about just under 7.5 pounds. That seemed about right to me.

So as a collector piece in primo condition, the model 21 might be worth the usual high tariff. As a hunting piece in average used condition, I think I'd look elsewhere for a good lively feeling SxS or O/U of somewhat lighter weight for Upland hunting, and a stout, easy to care for, reasonably priced repeater for ducks. But that's just me of course. Anyone else is free to follow his own agenda w/o any complaints from me. It ain't my money to spend.

Member Joined: 07 Jan 2013 Posts: 398 Location: Virginia

I'd love to have a Model 21, but I just can't justify paying what a decent one would set me back.

When I was a teenager (about 50 years ago), a friend's father owned a lovely 16 gauge Model 21. I thought it was the most beautiful gun I'd ever seen. And I believe I was right!

Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 1309 Location: Western WA

2lo8s,

Great looking collection. Are #1 and #8 (from left) original condition? The straight grip/splinter forend combination suits my taste best, but seems to be uncommon with the M21. Many splinter grip M21s came from the factory with a pistol grip.

Don Zutz wrote in his book on shotguns that beavertail forends should be paired with pistol grip stocks, and a straight grip stock should come with a splinter forend. It would be interesting to see what percentage of M21s came from the factory with the straight/splinter combination. Those guns would get my serious attention, especially in original field grade configuration, even with a little wear and tear.

I only shoot a few hundred shells through my SxS guns each year, but some of my better guns are definitely exhibiting significant loosening and wear even at that modest rate over the years. And a buddy's Savage Model B fell apart after a few seasons of use. So the solidly built M21 would be worth a premium to me. Don Zutz thought so as well.

Guest

I've always held respect for the Model 21 mainly because Jack O'Connor shot them well and spoke highly of them. It's too easy to blow holes in my thinking, so don't bother. Smile

I don't have a burning desire to own one, but I wouldn't refuse one either!

Member Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 1257 Location: Nebraska

I'd guess splinter forearms were a relative rarity after the first few years. My first 1940 gun was made for Abercrombie and Fitch and was a PG/splinter with plain wood. The second one is a Trap grade that came to me with a replacement stock of straight/splinter configuration. It appears to have been a pg gun as the guard was just straightened and the stock inletted for that abbreviated tang. Seems most 21s with straight grips were provided with BT forearms, if images in books and on the Web are indications.

Joined: 13 Jun 2009 Posts: 696 Location: WA/AK

After being out of Model 21s for over thirty years, one came my way this spring. I'd long thought that the ideal Model 21 for a guy who shoots a lot of skeet like myself would be a 12-gauge Model 21 Skeet Gun with 28-inch vent rib barrels, with a full pistol grip and a recoil pad. Just such a gun came my way via an elderly friend, of my friend the local NRA rep, who was liquidating. According to the Cody letter it went to Kerr's Sport Shop in Beverly Hills, California, in 1953. I suspect somewhere during its life it was refurbished by Pachmayr and that is when it got one of their Olde English recoil pads. It is a nice shooter, but that WS-2 choke of .016" in the left barrel is way too tight for skeet.

The only smallbore Model 21 I've had was long, long ago I bought a pre-war 20-gauge with 26-inch barrels bored improved cylinder & modified, with ejectors, beavertail and double triggers for $1000. It weighed a fraction of an ounce over seven pounds, and before long I got to feeling it was way too heavy for a 20-gauge, so it flowed down the river of commerce for $1500. Now, a gun I shoot a lot, and probably the best of everything I own, is my 20-gauge 28-inch Browning Superposed New Model Skeet standard weight which weighs right at seven pounds, as does its siblings in 28-gauge and .410-bore!!

Model 21s are good guns, but I doubt they would draw the kind of money they do if they didn't have the Winchester name on them.

Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Posts: 120 Location: South Dakota

Member Joined: 08 Jun 2009 Posts: 321 Location: So Cal

Well I am a bit biased, hell down right prejudiced, in my liking Winchester 21's. I've been shooting a 16ga Win 21 for over 58 yrs (since I was 12), and have owned it for over 40 yrs, when it was finally given to me by my Great Uncle. I have it and his 1953 Sweet 16 and have enjoyed them both for many many years. Both guns balance beautifully between the hands. Both guns just keeping working without any problems or breakdowns.

My Win 21 was made in 1937, has a splinter forearm, 28" M/F barrels, single trigger, and weighs 7 lbs 1/4 oz. The original recoil pad (which went to hell after 50 yrs) was replaced with the thickest KickEez pad, mainly to increase LOP. The only repairs ever done to it was a thorough take down and cleaning in 1958 after it had to be used by my uncle to get himself unstuck after he got stuck and fell into the mud down by the Salton Sea. (The mud there is like glue.) He used it strictly for birds, I use it for skeet, trap, and birds. As a result of his lending the gun to a friend who lived on a boat in a salt water bay, with the gun stored in a leather mutton leg case, there is some minor pitting on the barrel surfaces.

I make up spreader loads for skeet, but will also shoot skeet with regular loads too. There is a very nice 12 ga Win 21 S/S marked down for $3,995 and I've been tempted to buy it but I already have six 12ga's. I think all 12ga SxS' are heavy but I do have two of them - a Browning BSS and a custom stocked LC Smith Hunter - so while I'd like to have the 12ga 21, its not something I can't live without. I do most of my shooting now with one of my four 16ga's or my 28ga.

If you can find a 16ga Win21 at a (relatively) decent price and the gun fits and balances right for you, I say go for it. They ain't fancy but they handle beautifully and rarely have any problems or breakdowns. (Just use snap caps!) The more you use it the more you'll be glad that you bought it.