16ga.com ~ View topic - Bismuth shot, Fio, Fed hulls, SP-16 wads and Longshot

I'm in need of some advice here...

I started reloading 16 gauge a couple of years ago, but have only loaded 75 or so bismuth loads. My first run of handloads used a recipe from the spreadsheets:
(new hulls)
Fiocchi hull
Fio 616 primer
SP-16 wad
1 oz Bismuth
26 gr Longshot
Hodgdon 2000

I loaded it up on my Lee Load All 2 and was having some problems with the crimp as the shot column seemed too low. I added a 20ga felt pad under the shot column and started getting better crimps. I used half a box on ducks that season to good effect and set the box aside.

A year went by and I took out that half box of shells. A widgeon flys by, I take a shot and it's a blooper. I clear the shell and chamber another round. A nice pintail flys by, I take a shot and..... another blooper. I packed up and headed home. Upon examination I'm seeing a LOT of powder migration.

So I proceed to take apart the shells I loaded. I find another recipe
(once fired)
Federal hulls
Fed 209A primer
SP-16 wad
1 oz bismuth
27 gr Longshot
Hodgdon 2000

The shot column is too low in this one too. I get fine crimps with the addition of a 1/4 inch 20 ga felt filler wad. I haven't fired any yet but so far the wad fit seems better, I think...

Anyone have any experience with either of these loads? Is Hodgdon just terrible at figuring out stack height?

Late Addition:
I may have found something. Looking through Hodgdon's online data, they list the Fed recipe for the Federal Hi-Power Plastic Paper Basewad Shell, is this the current purple hull?

So far as the Fiocchi load listed in the spreadsheet is concerned, the spreadsheet lists the SP-16 wad, the Hodgdon website lists the G/BP-16 wad, so I guess that might be the problem.

I just tore apart one of the Fed hulls that was already damaged and yes, it is in fact a plastic hull with a paper basewad so it seems like this is the same hull listed in the Hodgdon data.

I don't mind having a filler wad, but I find it odd that both loads I've tried have required it.

Ah well, I should go pattern these anyway. At least the SP-16 wad seems to fit better in this hull.

Member Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Posts: 2168 Location: Florida

Longshot and the sp-16 is a bad combination in any straight walled hull . Powder migration can be a big problem when using this combo . The sp16 wad will work fine in the straight walled hulls if using larger flaked powders like 800x. That wad will work great with any powder in the Remington and the Old Win compression formed hulls.

The G/PB-16 ( SG-16 ) wad is a better choice for the Federal , Fiocchi , Cheddite type hulls.

FN is right on . We've tried flaring the lip on the powder end of the wad and all sorts of things and they work SOMETIMES !! The wad was designed for a tighter case like the RGL , and you can expect those to work all the time . The SP should fit fine for a 1oz Bizz or Hevi 10 as the volumn would be about the same as 11/8 of lead . As FN said , the gwads are thicker and made to work in the straight walls ... nothing worse than the old blooper - used a Nitro 100 load 1st shot on the prairie - out of the guides and 1st shot was a dud . Fortunately had a few other loads with me !!

NC - howdy ! These loads / data can be a PITA !! I try to keep things fairly simple . What I do is if I've got a favorite 1oz load with say an RP wad(RGL case) , I just use the SP and put in a weighed 1oz of Bizz or Hevi 10 . These weigh the same , but take up 11/8 of space (approx. ) The sp has more room , so the switch usually is pretty easy . They usually make pretty neat loads in once fired RGL's ... The straight walls require those wider wads . The SG16's work just fine , they probably won't hold all the shot in the cup , so a lot of the guys are getting the Ballistic Prods all metal type wads if they really feel they need the protection . I have a LOT of Herters wads that hold all the shot , but they are an old design with a post . Every so often , I get a blown wad , so I cut out the post and put a 16 or 20 1/4'' filler . No worries !! ... The RGL's are really the way to go if you've got or can get some cases . The straight walls will hold more shot for bigger loads , but then you really need to get into the Metal wads ... cheers !

oh , by the way Ballistic Products sells both Bizz and they are the proprietors of Hevi 10/13 . cheers

Awesome, thanks all!
I always figured that I could sub 1 oz bismuth in a 1 oz recipe (coming from a metallic reloading background slight component swaps are pretty normal) but everyone always says to not deviate from the recipe for shotguns. i mean a 1 oz payload is a 1 oz payload, as long as it fits and crimps. That being said, I'd just as soon use published loads when i can.

At any rate, I have a bunch of RGL hulls, I just like to use the purple or blue hulls to differentiate my bismuth loads from my lead loads.

On the plus side, going through the Hodgdon site they have a recipe for 1 oz bismuth in RGL hulls with Win 209 primers, SP-16 wads, and Longshot. Looks like I don't have to pick up 'yet another powder' just yet Wink

I hadn't checked Ballistic for bismuth, having only ever seen it on Precision's website, I could use some 4s...

Joined: 24 Jul 2016 Posts: 548 Location: Ohio

At this point in time you can buy it at Cabela's loaded (Kents). As of yesterday it was 13.99 a box. 1oz at 1300 fps. Can't load for that.

Member Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Posts: 2168 Location: Florida

Pressure can be higher when doing direct substitutions with Bismuth in lead data , sometimes times alot.

If i didn't already have Bismuth i would buy the Kents , can't buy loose Biz for that price .

Joined: 24 Jul 2016 Posts: 548 Location: Ohio

Member Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Posts: 2168 Location: Florida

Can Bizmuth and ITX10 be safely substituted?[quote]

No ! Not without testing especially ITX

Guest

I've been squirreling away those Herter's bismuth loads since they became available. They pattern very well and all of the field reports I've read have been very positive.