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<  16ga. Ammunition & Reloading  ~  KENT Bismuth
3drahthaars
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:44 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 May 2015
Posts: 127

Longtime lurker, recent poster here.

I just recently got my first 16ga, a Sauer SxS, choked M/M, and I very much like it.

It shoulders well, points where I shoot it, patterns RST, Spreaders, and Herter's loads pretty much by the book.

But, my first pattern with #6 KENT Bismuths wasn't worth counting. All by the book, 40yds, 30" circle. Holes everywhere in the pattern big enough for a couple birds to fly through.

Anyone else with poor experience with the same?

3ds
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Dogchaser37
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:08 am  Reply with quote
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Location: Central CT

Bismuth is best buffered.

Up to 30 yards it patterns OK without buffer.

The trouble with Bismuth is that it tends to fracture on firing. The heavier the load the more this is true. The way to stop the fracturing is to buffer it.

I don't ever bother loading bismuth unless I do buffer it. Then you get some good looking patterns. I have only used Bismuth in my 16 for ducks (#5's) and the occasional pheasant. It has worked good for both.

YMMV and I am sure that others have had other experiences but........buffer is king with Bismuth.

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old colonel
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:54 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 01 Dec 2008
Posts: 605
Location: Topeka, Kansas

I only patterned three targets at 25 yards and got good results. I use them for Pheasant in waterfowl areas and have not hunted waterfowl in a while

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JonP
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:13 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 694
Location: MN

Haven't had any problem killing birds to 40 yds. I still miss my Tungsten Matrix though....!!!
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Hootch
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:06 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1460
Location: Eagle, Nebraska

Killed a lot of pheasants with the number 5's this year. Cant say any misses were ammo fault
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kiwicharlin
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:07 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Feb 2014
Posts: 30
Location: New Zealand

Mark

If you don't mind me asking, what type of buffer do you use and does it change the pressures?

Richard.
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Dogchaser37
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:46 am  Reply with quote
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PSB from Precision, it is polystyrene beads. Really easy to use, but really increase pressures. All buffers raise pressures, the spherical buffers raise it the most. The sphericals also work the best because they are the easiest to vibrate into the shot column. The flake types tend to keep the pellets from touching which is not what you want. The buffer needs to be in the open space between the pellets so that the pellets have no room to deform into.

I don't have access to the specific load at this moment, but I will post it later tonight.

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AmericanMeet
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:36 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 3172
Location: NCWa

Since I poster was asking about Kent Bismuth- Is it buffered?
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Cold Iron
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:46 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Mar 2016
Posts: 746
Location: Mn.

No it is not, but doesn't need to be like the bismuth of old. If you were an early adapter of Bismuth then buffering it is pretty much a requirement as Dogchaser37 accurately mentions.

The only source of bismuth shot in the world for a long time was Ely, who is sister company with Rio. Ely Hawk supplied the world with Bismuth shot and it was hard and fractured. It wasn't until about 4 or less years ago they finally got the Bismuth Tin alloy figured out where it was effective and did not fracture without buffering.

Tom Roster has a good write up on the "new" Rio shells from 3 years ago in Shooting Sportsman. http://shootingsportsman.com/bismuth-lives/

I hunt SD for pheasant and when drawn waterfowl with a small group of other retired Navy guys for 15 days in Nov. 3 years ago is when I said the hell with steel on WPA and waterfowl and switched to Rio shells. So my only experience is with the new bismuth. And I am totally sold on it. This year I took Kent bismuth with me but only hunted phez a few times where non tox was required. The Kent shells dropped the birds pretty much identical to lead. Big improvement over steel. Unfortunately the ducks didn't migrate at the time Canada held them hostage. OK once again it wasn't cold enough to push them South to us Smile and the residents had already left.

The Kent bismuth is not made by Ely Hawk which is a departure from the past. Kent shot is true to size for US sizing. The Rio shot is European sized so I went up in size. Considering that it is still a bit lighter than lead not a bad idea even with the Kents.

3ds it is hard to tell how a gun patterns from just one shot. Patterns are a mathematical probability and a lot of randomness at that. Dave Erickson on here posted a pattern or 2 with the new 16 ga. Kents and they looked outstanding. Doesn't mean your gun doesn't like the shells that you tried but I would certainly shoot more. I don't count pellets anymore for years been taking pictures and running them through shotgun insight for analysis. http://www.shotgun-insight.com/ But to do it right should shoot at least 10 shots and it is still a lot of work. So haven't done it on paper in a long time except with a new gun to make certain regulation is correct. Other than that I just go shoot birds.
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Dogchaser37
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:47 pm  Reply with quote
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The Bismuth load I posted about previously.

Cheddite 2 3/4" hull
Federal 209A primer
27.0 grains Steel powder
16 ga. Plastic gas seal - available from Precision Reloading and BPI
16 Gauge .028" overshot card (on top of gas seal)
.0075" thick Mylar wrapper 1 1/4" x 2 1/8"
20 ga. 1/4" felt spacer (under shot)
1 1/8 oz. Bismuth shot #6 and larger
20.0 grains PSB buffer - available from Precision Reloading- vibrate down gently until you just expose the top of the shot.

1,297 FPS 11,180 PSI

You assemble this load in the order the components are listed. Crimp depth is .065"

You won't reload this fast, but these loads have been effective on ducks and pheasants. I developed this load with #4 shot but I use #5 shot.

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MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:14 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 01 Dec 2005
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Location: Minnesota and Florida

Love PSB. It flows almost like water. Very little if any vibrating required to fill. Add some buffer; put your finger on the shot so it doesn't rise and tap base of shell lightly on the bench, put in some more buffer, do the same, top up with the rest, crimp -- then seal the crimp --this stuff leaks out like water, too. I've tried the Tyvek over-shot disks -- just a circle of Tyvek fabric, but I think a wax or some kind of hardening liquid sealer works best. You need a good tight crimp, of course, in any case. A good roll crimp contains buffer nicely, too. I roll crimp the buffered bismuth loads for my circa 1882 2-7/8 inch chambered W&C Scott & Sons 10 gauge.
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MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:17 am  Reply with quote
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Nice load, Mark. Thanks, I'll try it!
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kiwicharlin
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:43 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Feb 2014
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Location: New Zealand

Thanks Mark.

Richard.
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4setters
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:30 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 19 Nov 2013
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Location: NW Arkansas

3d,
This month's American Rifleman has an article on the new Sweet 16, and uses Kent ammunition to test patterns. They used NRA's standard test at 40 yards with a modified choke in the new SW16, with Kent Ultimate Fast Lead and Diamond Shot 1oz. of 6s for average patterns of 66% in a 30 inch circle. They also shot "some" Kent #5 Bismuth 1 oz. loads and got 64% patterns. This, of course, says nothing about "holes" in a pattern, but it would appear that the shell types performed almost the same.

Interestingly, the new SW 16 appeared to shoot "spot on" in the NRA patterning tests, something that quite a few shotguns, including expensive ones, don't do in many cases. (When Benneli's SBE first came out, wild turkeys learned to laugh at all that shot from 3.5 inch shells flying harmlessly over their heads!). I've not shot any Kent Bismuth or patterned my new SW16, but the quail I've killed with it so far suggests it is also spot on and a wonderful addition to my gun covey.

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double vision
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:41 pm  Reply with quote
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4setters wrote:
3d,
This month's American Rifleman has an article on the new Sweet 16, and uses Kent ammunition to test patterns. They used NRA's standard test at 40 yards with a modified choke in the new SW16, with Kent Ultimate Fast Lead and Diamond Shot 1oz. of 6s for average patterns of 66% in a 30 inch circle. They also shot "some" Kent #5 Bismuth 1 oz. loads and got 64% patterns. This, of course, says nothing about "holes" in a pattern, but it would appear that the shell types performed almost the same.

Interestingly, the new SW 16 appeared to shoot "spot on" in the NRA patterning tests, something that quite a few shotguns, including expensive ones, don't do in many cases. (When Benneli's SBE first came out, wild turkeys learned to laugh at all that shot from 3.5 inch shells flying harmlessly over their heads!). I've not shot any Kent Bismuth or patterned my new SW16, but the quail I've killed with it so far suggests it is also spot on and a wonderful addition to my gun covey.


Those are excellent percentages for the DS Mod choke. The 40 yard standard has always been IC 50%, Mod 60%, Full 70%.
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