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<  16ga. Ammunition & Reloading  ~  3/4 and 7/8 oz spreadload questions, and WTB Rem 16 ga hulls
setterpie
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:13 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 27
Location: NWPA

Get the easiest part out of the way first. Anyone looking to sell Rem 16 ga hulls, please contact me. Will take 6 or 8 point crimp, low or high brass, green or black. As long as they take 209 primers (I've got some blue Rem/Peters that are old enough they don't) and are Rem, I'll take 'em.

Kinda surprised at the dislike by some here for the Rem hull. Yes, the old 8 point ones I have are on par with 12 ga Rem Gun Clubs, but I think I can get 5 loads out of the black cheapos, and that's enough for me.

Onto the reloading questions. Working with Rem Hulls, Win 209, Claybuster Pink and Blue, Universal, and International. I have a full choked Ithaca 37 I'm determined to learn to shoot, have shortened up the stock and added a recoil pad, and I'm loading the lightest loads I can. Started with 1 oz loads with 18.5 gr of Universal and the blue wad. Loads fine, but recoil is more than I care for for skeet. Dropped to 7/8 oz with the pink wad and 14.5 gr of Universal. Recoil is now manageable for 50 targets. Problem is when I put it on paper, it's tight at 25 yards. The majority of the shot is in a 1 foot by 1 foot square, and all of it's within a 2 to 2 1/2 foot square. Shooting skeet with this load results in smoke balls, or chunky breaks that where obviously in the fringe of the pattern. Could stick with this, and may for simple ease of loading and since I'm more concerned about learning to point the gun in the right direction than about shooting 25s.

Then, I got an idea. I have some spreader inserts that I've only done minimal work with, because with larger shot like 6s the results were all over the place and not suitable for hunting. My thoughts are this.... the pink and blue claybuster wads appear to be the same, except for the raised section in the pink wad to take up 1/8 oz of space (and being about 4 gr heavier). For a 7/8 oz spreader load I was thinking:

Rem Hull, Win 209, 14.5 gr International, Claybuster blue, 7/8 oz of shot, and spreader insert. The use of the blue wad instead of pink will leave room for a a full 7/8 oz and the spreader, while using what's basically the 7/8 oz recipe that came with the pink wads.

and

Rem Hull, Win 209, 14.5 gr International, Claybuster pink, 3/4 oz of shot, and spreader insert. Loaded and shot one of these on paper with 8 shot last night, and was too spotty. Hoping using number 9s might fix that.

So, my questions are does anyone see anything wrong or dangerous with the logic behind the 7/8 oz load? And as for the 3/4 oz load (I've been out of reloading for a while, so bear with me), by putting 3/4 oz in a 7/8 oz recipe, I'm going to lower pressure and increase velocity, correct? When I shot that one I loaded up last night, I noticed a sharper "cracK" instead of boom (making my believe it's up over 1200 fps), and the barrel was a little dirtier than normal. Was thinking I could probably cut this back to 14 gr of International and still have a load that will function without fear of bloopers.

Will run all this past Claybuster and Hodgdon, but any input from here would be appreciated. Thanks!
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byrdog
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:58 am  Reply with quote
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Try using chilled shot instead of hard shot in the "tight at 25 load"

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setterpie
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:36 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 27
Location: NWPA

byrdog wrote:
Try using chilled shot instead of hard shot in the "tight at 25 load"


It is chilled shot. I've had chilled 6 open up a 1 oz load, surprised these 8s aren't doing the same.

Spoke will Hodgdon, shoulda done that before making my long post, they said my approach to the spreader loads was fine.

Spoke with Spred-R and their advice was that if the 16 ga inserts were opening things up too much even with 9 shot, to try their 20/28 ga insert. Anyone gone that route?
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Ohio Wirehair
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:01 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 24 Jul 2016
Posts: 167
Location: Ohio

I use the BPI 16 gauge spreader with 7/8 oz shot in both the RGL and Federal hulls with very good success out to about 20 yards. For a little tighter pattern I use a 20 gauge polywad spreader. Those are exactly my rabbit loads in that order with a 1 0z. factory load for my third shot. All these run thru a Ithaca 37. Makes a good pheasant combo out to about 35 yards. I load Green Dot with Rio primers.
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setterpie
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:45 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 27
Location: NWPA

Ohio Wirehair wrote:
I use the BPI 16 gauge spreader with 7/8 oz shot in both the RGL and Federal hulls with very good success out to about 20 yards. For a little tighter pattern I use a 20 gauge polywad spreader. Those are exactly my rabbit loads in that order with a 1 0z. factory load for my third shot. All these run thru a Ithaca 37. Makes a good pheasant combo out to about 35 yards. I load Green Dot with Rio primers.


Thanks for the info. Had the chance to put one of the 3/4 oz loads on paper last night, and if weather permits will shoot a couple more tonight. Looks like it should be okay for skeet, though a little spotty on one side. We'll see if that persists.

Done any work with larger size shot and the spreaders? I like 5s for pheasant, and Fiocchi GPs pattern well at 30 yards. Hunting with a setter though, there's times I'm getting a lot of shots at 20 to 25 yards and those GPS would be manglers at that range. Got a feeling though that the 16 or 20 ga speader over 7/8 of 5 is going to fling lead all over the place.
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setterpie
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:45 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 27
Location: NWPA

Ohio Wirehair wrote:
I use the BPI 16 gauge spreader with 7/8 oz shot in both the RGL and Federal hulls with very good success out to about 20 yards. For a little tighter pattern I use a 20 gauge polywad spreader. Those are exactly my rabbit loads in that order with a 1 0z. factory load for my third shot. All these run thru a Ithaca 37. Makes a good pheasant combo out to about 35 yards. I load Green Dot with Rio primers.


Thanks for the info. Had the chance to put one of the 3/4 oz loads on paper last night, and if weather permits will shoot a couple more tonight. Looks like it should be okay for skeet, though a little spotty on one side. We'll see if that persists.

Done any work with larger size shot and the spreaders? I like 5s for pheasant, and Fiocchi GPs pattern well at 30 yards. Hunting with a setter though, there's times I'm getting a lot of shots at 20 to 25 yards and those GPS would be manglers at that range. Got a feeling though that the 16 or 20 ga spreader over 7/8 of 5 is going to fling lead all over the place.
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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:02 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 612
Location: Hudson,Wy

I may be able to lend some help. I do a lot of blue grouse hunting in the mountains each fall and have been loading spreaders for a long, long time since most shots average 15-20 yards.

Things that I have found reliable in opening patterns: soft (chilled) shot, high velocity, petal-less wads, high pressures. Allow me to elaborate. The softer shot is pretty self explanatory, it deforms more easily.

Snipping the petals from the wad allows the shot to scrub the bore and be battered by the forcing cone and choke as well thusly increasing deformation.

Higher chamber pressure causes the pellets in the lower portions of the shot charge to be "crushed" or "smashed" against the pellets ahead of them that are not yet moving along (setback force). Kind of like hitting a brick wall with a car; the wall will breech but the car is going to get crumpled in the process. We are only talking milliseconds, but it's pretty darn violent.

Higher velocities increase air resistance (which is what makes a pattern spread to begin with) and the equation is exponential so it does help.

The only two caveats I will issue since your gun is modern and will take the higher pressure thing is that petal free wads will mean more scrubbing to clean your barrel and the higher pressure/ hotter loads will give more recoil. With a 3/4 oz. shot charge the recoil increase is minimal though. There are always 5/8 oz. loads...

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setterpie
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:51 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 27
Location: NWPA

[URL=http://s4.photobucket.com/user/Zarathos666/media/IMG_6165%20-%20Copy.jpg.html] [/URL]

Couple patterns. The one on the left is a regular load with chilled 8, not mag, and at 25 yards.

Pattern on the right is with 9, and the 16 ga spreader insert, and at 20 yards. It's ok, if it's consistent.

Ordered some 20 ga inserts to try out with 3/4 oz of 9. Patterns were way too spotty at 20 yards with the 16 ga insert and that light shot charge. Will probably try in the 7/8 oz load, because I'd like something a little less open than in the picture on the right.
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Dogchaser37
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:18 am  Reply with quote
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The pattern on the right is about done. It is way too open to reliably break or kill anything.

I have never been impressed by chilled shot. I want to be able to start off with the roundest shot I can, and push it to any velocity and let my choke and Spred-R do the rest. You also aren't cleaning lead out of the bores as you will, if you remove wad petals. I will keep my comments to magnum shot.

Use the 7/8z. load with International that Hodgdon gave you the thumbs up on. Use the 1 oz. Claybuster blue wad and the 16 ga. Spred-R insert.

Drop 3/4 oz. of shot put in the Spred-R then drop the remaining 1/8 oz. on top of the Spred-R. This should fill up the 21" core of the pattern and still provide some decent spread.

BTW the Universal load is tight because there will be relatively no setback (acceleration) to deform the pellets and the velocity is low, very low. Possibly under 1000 FPS. I have a couole of loads with 22 and 23 grains that run about 1400 FPS figure 50 - 75 FPS per grain take out 7-8 grains and you are in the vicinity of 1000 FPS. If it ever gets cold where you live the pellets will about dribble out the barrel. Stick with the International powder.

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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:25 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 612
Location: Hudson,Wy

DogChaser, you don't get lead in your barrels with petal free wads? My 28 ga. streaks up pretty noticeably.

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Dogchaser37
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:42 am  Reply with quote
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Wyo,

My 16's get some pretty good lead streaks if I shoot the old card and fiber loads. I like the old loads sometimes just for the heck of it.

I tried spreader loads before Polywad came along and when all we could do was put in a card board X and take the petals off the plastic wad. I hated that, way too much work to clean the lead out. Killed some woodcock with those loads.

This was back before I really got shooting the 16...........I like the Alcan combo wads in 12 gauge. So I loaded up a couple cases went and shot some skeet. After finishing off the 2 cases, I go to clean the barrels of my Beretta.......holy crap Batman what an absolute mess. I never did that again.

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setterpie
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:33 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 27
Location: NWPA

Dogchaser37 wrote:
The pattern on the right is about done. It is way too open to reliably break or kill anything.

I have never been impressed by chilled shot. I want to be able to start off with the roundest shot I can, and push it to any velocity and let my choke and Spred-R do the rest. You also aren't cleaning lead out of the bores as you will, if you remove wad petals. I will keep my comments to magnum shot.

Use the 7/8z. load with International that Hodgdon gave you the thumbs up on. Use the 1 oz. Claybuster blue wad and the 16 ga. Spred-R insert.

Drop 3/4 oz. of shot put in the Spred-R then drop the remaining 1/8 oz. on top of the Spred-R. This should fill up the 21" core of the pattern and still provide some
decent spread.


Thanks!

Yeah, these loads are skeet only. Going to pattern a couple more of the load on the right (14.5 gr International, Claybuster Blue, 7/8 oz of 9 all under 16 ga insert), and try out the 20 ga insert with that load, and with 3/4 oz in the pink wad. Don't care enough for recreational skeet to take the time load shot on top and below the spreader. And when I've tried that with 1 oz #6 hunting loads, it did improve the core, but was too inconsistent to shoot at a pheasant.

There's something to be said for being able to swap out chokes.....
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Dogchaser37
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:59 pm  Reply with quote
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Choke tubes, don't leave home without them. Very Happy Very Happy

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setterpie
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:45 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 27
Location: NWPA

Got the 20 ga inserts and loaded up:

Rem Hull
Win 209
14 gr International
Claybuster pink 16 ga wad
3/4 oz mag 9
20 ga Spred-R

Shot one at just over 20 yards. Called it a day and loaded up 50 to see how they break skeet targets. 21 to 22 yards is about max range on position 4, and if I feel I'm missing targets because of the shell, I can always bump the powder back up to 14.5 gr, use the blue wad, 7/8 oz of 9, and the 20 ga insert.

Not going to worry too much about the pattern though. I used to load 5/8 oz of 9 in my 28 ga 1100 years ago, and IIRC it didn't pattern all that great but I shot more 25s and 50s with it than a 12 loaded up with 1 1/8 oz of shot.

The disappointing thing working with these spreaders is I don't think I'll be able to load anything for the 20 to 25 yard range with large shot (5 or 6) that will be effective or humane for pheasants. Would have to go to a shot charge heavier than a 16 can hold to get enough pellets in the pattern.


[URL=http://s4.photobucket.com/user/Zarathos666/media/FullSizeRender.jpg.html] [/URL]
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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:12 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 612
Location: Hudson,Wy

The best spreaders come from a rifled choke tube...if you have one that is.

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