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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:43 pm  Reply with quote

Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 940
Location: Hudson,Wy

There main reason they show the SP 16 is that when a lot of those manuals were first printed (and many, many years after) the SP 16 was to only wad commonly available. The 16 ga. is not terribly popular so the companies haven't been going back and adding new data.

Card fillers will help your crimps immensely.

Federal hulls are fine. Cheddite/ Herter's are pretty popular too and load very similar to Federal hulls. Remington's (RGL's) have many advantages in terms of tight wad sealing due to the smaller internal diameter but tend to not last as long, especially for guys who insist on hot loads. Win CF's are the best in my experience but getting darn tough to find. Bottom line: use whatever you can get a whole bunch of!

The difference between Fed and Win primers is rather large. Folks tend to say the Federals are a lot hotter but it is more complicated than that. It varies a bit. To complicate matters even further; when looking at data remember this: Federal made the 209, 209A, and 209SC. Don't substitute any of them for the Win 209.

Only catch snowflakes on your tongue AFTER the birds fly south for the winter...
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:44 pm  Reply with quote

Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 6533
Location: massachusetts

[quote="Northwind"]16 Gaugeguy,

Great info, thank you so much.

My next question is, why do the posted loads from reloading manuals say to use the Remington wad with a Federal hull for 1 oz. loads then?

Keep in mind that only loads which can be firmly and properly crimped will produce consistent ballistic performance. So if a load is published in a professionally compiled manual, the load has been tested in a professional ballistics lab and has proven to safe, has useful and consistent performance characteristics, and can be crimped well. Of course, this means the shot/wad/powder column also has the right height inside the case before it is crimped, because the specified components allow for it. In some cases, a footnote for the load somewhere on the page will advise us to use one or more certain size nitro card wads to get that correct column height. If the manual does not, but the shot/wad/powder column is obviously too low, then add the right nitro card wads in the bottom of the shot cup to get it there.

Be advised, Powder and shot charges that are under the weights specified in the data will always shorten the shot/wad/powder column to some degree. If the charges are seriously under weight, then it is most likely the resulting column will be too short to get a good crimp. So it is very important to initially check the weights of any powder and shot charges metered by volume in your reloading press with an accurate powder scale. This is so because all reloading machine manufacturers now intentionally design their powder and shot bushings or shot bars to throw light charge weights in order to avoid liability issues. Just how it is in our world today.

So if you don't already have one, be sure to obtain an accurate powder scale, and always initially check weigh the first five shot and powder drops thrown by the bushings or shot bars you have selected. Then average them to verify that the specified powder and shot bushings or bars actually closely meter the weights specified in the reloading data.

If the specified powder bushing throws light (and it will, trust me here), then consult the manufacturer's bushing chart and try the next sizes up one at a time until you find the one which throws the averaged correct weight powder charge to within a few tenths of a grain under or no more than one tenth of a grain over.

Shot bushings or shot bars which throw excessively light shot charges can be carefully reamed out to closely meter the correct shot weights to within a few grains. Of coarse, you should understand that going to a larger shot size will lower the charge weight and vice versa. So getting close by a ten grains or so over or under is good enough to remain safe and to get good results.

So should I use Nitro card wads with my 1 oz. loads? Will this help with my crimps?

Measure the the top of the shot column inside the hull to see if there is about 5/16" of hull mouth. If not, then add the right size card wads inside the shot cup to get it there.

I will have to do some measuring, I am uncertain how much space I have on top of the shot column before crimping. I will check and report back.

Yes. Do that every time you are using new data for a different load. Once you do, then you will know what must be done to obtain the proper column height.

Should I not be using Federal hulls? What are most of you using? I just happen to have about 100 Federal hulls, this is the main reason I decided to use them, plus I like the purple

Most modern polyformed hulls now incorporate a molded plastic base wad insert in their plastic polyformed hull designs instead of the far older rolled, compressed paper or compressed fiber base wads used in fixed shotgun ammo ever since fixed shotgun ammo was first introduced a decade or so after the Civil War. Examining the various polyformed hulls which are commonly available in our time will show you what's what here.

Both Federal rolled waxed paper hulls and the much later plastic polyformed hulls incorporate a rolled and compressed paper base wad insert. The plastic polyformed hulls have been continually produced like this since the early 1960's. Rolled, waxed paper Federal hulls have been around for well over a century as far as I know. Some die hard trap shooters I know and others around the country insist on using only trap ammo w/ rolled waxed paper hulls, so Federal still offers them. You would have to be a serious trap shooter to maybe understand why this is so. I have been a serious trap shooter, and I've never understood it. Serious trap shooters can be weird. Laughing

Either type Federal hull might be safe to reload, but be advised. Once fired Federal hulls of this type can be safely used for reloading a couple of times, but only if they have never gotten wet inside. A wet rolled paper base wad swells and can expand the inside of the hull bottom. The wad shrinks back when it dries and then might very well be loose in the expanded bottom of the hull. This makes the hull unsafe to reload. Toss any which have previously been wet even if they've been dried out again. If you don't know, then don't use them. It's the best way to stay out of trouble. I suggest using only the ones you yourself have fired and have kept dry or know for certain the once fired ones you've obtained elsewhere have never been wet inside.

Also, always try first to closely match the wad diameter to the inside diameter of the hull if you can . It's the easiest and best way to get a proper seal over the powder charge to prevent powder migration upwards around the wad base w/o any difficulty. A wad that is a tad small can often be seated firmly enough to splay the powder cup skirt out enough to seal in the powder charge. A firm crimp will then hold it in place. It is best to avoid using wads that are too small to be splayed unless the manual calls for it or unless you find the wad splays enough to seal the powder charge in from your own experience.

Also, how much difference does it make if I use a Federal primer vs. a Winchester primer?

Below is a copy of a recently compiled primer brisance chart I lifted off the net. Be advised. It might be safe to substitute a milder primer for a hotter one but never vice versa. Also, always check to see how well the primers fit the primer seat in the hull. Different brand primers often vary in diameter a bit. Primers which are too small to firmly seat in the hulls should be avoided. Those which are large enough to expand the primer seat in the hull when first seated must always be used after that in that hull for obvious reasons.

Primer brisance per Feb-08 Skeet Shooting Review, mildest to strongest:

1. Rem 209 STS,
2. CCI 209,
3. Winchester 209,
4. Noble Sport 209,
5. Cheddite 209,
6. Fiocchi 209,
7. CCI 209M,
8. Federal 209A.

Thanks in advance, I am finally learning so much![/quote

You are entirely welcome. Good luck.
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