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< 16ga. Ammunition & Reloading ~ universal clays density change |
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Posted:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:43 pm
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Joined: 30 Sep 2015
Posts: 640
Location: NEW SALISBURY INDIANA
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I have been using the canada made universal powder for a while now and my go to load is 17.1 grns, I have checked many rounds and all have been 17.1 grns. I bought a new keg it weights 16.8 grns. I started out today with the last of the old and it was 17.1, ran thru it and started using the new and round after round measured 16.8. Sooo seems Hodgdon is still fiddling around with the recipe. Btw, when I changed from the Australian made, I had to go to one mec bushing smaller to get the same weight. |
_________________ 16ga 3-Win 37
16ga Ithaca 37 1946
16ga Western Auto Revelation
16ga Browning A-5 1929
16ga Marlin 90 1939
16ga browning citori lightning grade 3 2003
16ga Francisque Darne 1920 |
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Posted:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:40 pm
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Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 3177
Location: NCWa
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I don't have much experience with Universal, but what you're doing (checking/comparing densities) is a very wise activity when ever a new lot of the same powder is used. It would also be interesting to see if there is any performance difference between the lots. |
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Posted:
Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:05 pm
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Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 1946
Location: Central CT
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That ship has sailed AM, unless you actually have some of the Australian made Universal left. |
_________________ Mark |
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Posted:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:04 pm
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Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 6535
Location: massachusetts
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kennedy756 wrote: |
I have been using the canada made universal powder for a while now and my go to load is 17.1 grns, I have checked many rounds and all have been 17.1 grns. I bought a new keg it weights 16.8 grns. I started out today with the last of the old and it was 17.1, ran thru it and started using the new and round after round measured 16.8. Sooo seems Hodgdon is still fiddling around with the recipe. Btw, when I changed from the Australian made, I had to go to one mec bushing smaller to get the same weight.
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Sometimes the density of a certain powder will vary from lot to lot over the years. This is especially true for companies like Hodgdon who hire it done under contract or buy and resell surplus military powders.
I'm certain Hodgdon also periodically has their powders re-tested as their sources and supplies change. They will update their reloading data if necessary. It's probably wise to contact Hodgdon and ask them if their recommended charge weights for the new lots of Universal from Canada have been updated. |
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Posted:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:35 pm
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Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 1338
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Last edited by mike campbell on Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Posted:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:00 pm
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Joined: 27 Jun 2012
Posts: 1114
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You guys got me checking my jugs of Universal and the 4 pounder I'm currently loading out of is Australian, but the new 8 pounder I got last month is Canadian. I guess when I start loading out of the new one, I can just match the 1200 fps velocity I'm getting now. Anyone see any issues with that approach? |
_________________ An elderly gentleman, his faithful dogs, and a 16 ga SXS. All is right with the world. |
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Posted:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:01 pm
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Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 1946
Location: Central CT
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Not at all......who knows you might not have to change anything. |
_________________ Mark |
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Posted:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:44 pm
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Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 6535
Location: massachusetts
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mike campbell wrote: |
What would one expect if they loaded 16.8 grains in a recipe that called for 17.1 grains?
I've used a #32 MEC bushing to dispense over 500 lbs of Green Dot...that's well over 3 million grains of powder. I'm pretty sure I've seen the average drop weight vary by +/- 0.2 grains through the years...that's +/- 1%. Chronographing that same load on and off over the last 20 years, I've seen the average velocity vary by less than +/- 15 fps. That would include any variation in the 185,000 Claybuster wads and CCI 209M primers I've used.
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Me too Mike. I've burned a gazillion Green Dot h-cap trap loads and two gazillion Red Dot trap singles and doubles loads plus my 12 gauge RD skeet loads over the last four plus decades. None of them have changed densities or thrown chage weights enough to notice much. My old 1100 FPS 20 gauge Green Dot skeet loads didn't either, not to mention my pet 3/4 and 7/8 ounce 16 gauge Green Dot loads. Then there are my Unique 28 gauge skeet and hunting loads. Same for them. None of these loads have changed weights or densities enough to notice in a very long time.
But Alliant/Hercules has been manufacturing their Dot line of canister smokeless powders for nearly a century. Unique goes back to 1898 (I think that's the year--memory's fading) and is one of the first if not the first modern smokeless powders. Alliant/Hercules canister grade powders don't vary enough to notice in my experience, but it's because they don't hire it done and change sources every few years like other powder companies do. At least I don't think Alliant has begun to hiring any done, but then, I'm not up on many of their newer offerings. Perhaps others more in the know might weigh in here about that. |
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Posted:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:35 pm
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Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 1946
Location: Central CT
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I have new canisters of both Universal and 700-X, the change in velocity has been negligible. |
_________________ Mark |
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Posted:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:50 pm
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Joined: 30 Sep 2015
Posts: 640
Location: NEW SALISBURY INDIANA
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ok, made up some rounds with 16.8grs tested with a chrony and about same speed as the old 17.1 grs at 1225fps. Taking them to the trap range tomorrow and see how they do. |
_________________ 16ga 3-Win 37
16ga Ithaca 37 1946
16ga Western Auto Revelation
16ga Browning A-5 1929
16ga Marlin 90 1939
16ga browning citori lightning grade 3 2003
16ga Francisque Darne 1920 |
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Posted:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:24 am
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Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 2067
Location: canandaigua - western n.y. (formerly deerhunter)
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K756 - you need to go without the thought there MIGHT be a difference . There won't !! .... the only powder I can remember having a LOT difference was Nitro 100 . I inherited a bunch from an old Creekside chrony and it was wonderful !! This the original brought to clubs in 25rd packs for trials . After that 11lbs was gone , bought a LB of what was the newer(est) stuff at the time , and the 17grn volumn weighed 18.1 . And the recoil was a noticeable difference . I believe that powder did come with a warning to weigh and adjust your charges though . |
_________________ Molly sez AArrrooooooah ! |
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Posted:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:41 am
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Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2126
Location: Hudson,Wy
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Is it possible that changes in humidity could be the culprit and nothing about the powder composition is different? Wouldn't take much. |
_________________ Only catch snowflakes on your tongue AFTER the birds fly south for the winter... |
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Posted:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:22 am
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Joined: 30 Sep 2015
Posts: 640
Location: NEW SALISBURY INDIANA
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shot a couple of boxes of each load with equal results, soo good to go. |
_________________ 16ga 3-Win 37
16ga Ithaca 37 1946
16ga Western Auto Revelation
16ga Browning A-5 1929
16ga Marlin 90 1939
16ga browning citori lightning grade 3 2003
16ga Francisque Darne 1920 |
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Posted:
Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:41 pm
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Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 1946
Location: Central CT
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Humidity has little effect on ballistics. Air temp can have a measurable effect, along with crimp depths and sloppy loading techniques.
There are a few folks on some other reloading forums that swear that the new lots of powder from Hodgdon and to a lesser extent Alliant are different from the older lots. I haven't seen it and to a large extent they haven't been able to prove it.
As far as different lots and needing to change powder bushings, that is nothing new. To go back to humidity, one of the Alliant techs stated it would have to be raining in the powder bottle before humidity would change charge weight. While there is a certain amount of moisture in powder it isn't ever an issue. |
_________________ Mark |
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Posted:
Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:21 pm
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Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 6535
Location: massachusetts
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Dogchaser37 wrote: |
Humidity has little effect on ballistics. Air temp can have a measurable effect, along with crimp depths and sloppy loading techniques...
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Humditty might not affect smokeless powders much, but the last couple of high temp, high humditty days we've been having got me looking and feeling like one big soggy, puckered up wrinkle. |
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