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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:20 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 601
Location: Hudson,Wy

One thing I have noticed about guns that seem to kick hard and ones that don't is that different stock profiles have a pronounced bearing on such things. The stock transmits the recoil from the receiver and different angles play apart in how it is delivered. The difference can be quite noteworthy. So many guns built in days long gone left the factory with varying stock dimensions. Today's production guns are fairly uniform. How the two Silverhawks fit may indeed be the culprit.

Another factor is severity of forcing cone angle and how "tight" a bore is. Some guns have minimal bore diameters and very sharp cones. My past experience is that the forcing cone plays the bigger role between the two. Lengthening cones has been a productive move for me. Overbore is another story.

I once bought a cheap O/U that had been bobbed back to 24". I back bored the top barrel to .745 to get what equates to SK2 choke; made my arms sore to turn that reamer for hours. I never noticed enough difference in recoil between top and bottom barrels to ever justify the procedure for that purpose alone.

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JonP
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:41 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 628
Location: MN

I am a big fan of Belgian Guild guns. There can be some very good deals...especially in 16 gauge which was so popular in Europe for many years.
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:42 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 233
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

JonP,

J.P. Sauer also made some serious Best Double Guns that can also be purchased for reasonable money. In fact I just picked up a 16 Gauge Grouse Gun over the last few months. Can't wait till Grouse season opens here in Pa to use her again.

RGD/Dave

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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:33 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 601
Location: Hudson,Wy

I saw a decent one advertised this week. Not perfect, but perfect is not what I usually look for, I hunt.

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:38 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 233
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

WyoChukar,

You can always restore the gun and make it like original once you purchase the gun.
I use all my double guns for Grouse and Woodcock hunting and keep them in pristine condition. If you need a good Master Gun Maker contact Rich Painter in Economy, Pa.
He does great work, if you are out West contact Freddie Brunner, Escondido, CA. These are the two Master Gun Makers that do all the work on my guns.

RGD/Dave


Last edited by Pine Creek/Dave on Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:00 am; edited 1 time in total

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old colonel
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:05 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 01 Dec 2008
Posts: 422
Location: Topeka, Kansas

Of the big three American, Fox, Parker, & Smith, I liked Fox best and miss my first Fox Sterlingworth I stupidly traded away. I do not miss the Parkers or Smiths. No disrespect they were good guns but did not work out for me.

I will not own a gun I don't hunt sometimes, if only preserve birds for some.

Today I own none of the big three American. My best guns are mostly Belgian SLEs by Jules Bury through Louis Christophe. I think the Belgian guns are a good value for the money. For best value, for shooters not collector guns, I always hold Belgian is a good way to go. You have to buy the gun not the name so I omit Francotte, though they are good guns, they are the one Belgian gun often overpriced.

My only BLE is. Greener FH50 w top safety that I seemed to have held onto when the other plainer guns were going away. I keep telling myself it is a rainy day gun, but the last two rainy day of last season I hunted SLEs anyway.

I am still waiting for a pair of Alex Martin 16ga SLEs purchased from Gavin Gardiner in April, but not in the USA yet. I cannot say if they are a good value or not yet, just that they were pretty and Celtic engraved guns were on my bucket list.

In the end the cost or quality of a gun is not the most important thing. The most important thing is if you can shoot it well. Fit and balance only go so far, in some guns I have shoot I believe there is an intangible that is either there or not. Having gone through more than 60 shotguns in my life I always seem to know the first time I shoulder it. The Pity is you cannot shoulder digits over the internet, which may actually be a good thing or I would own more guns.

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Topeka, KS
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skeettx
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:11 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 7201
Location: Amarillo, Texas

Yes, indeed
You are a blessed man
That is why I use a different gun each day of dove season
Mike

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canvasback
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:57 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 457
Location: Ontario

JonP wrote:
I am a big fan of Belgian Guild guns. There can be some very good deals...especially in 16 gauge which was so popular in Europe for many years.


I too am a big fan of Belgian guns. Have had a few lovely Piepers. As someone said, if you are buying to use, buy the gun, not the name. I also have a lovely German Heym and a Czech Lovena for the same reasons. Value for money can't be beat.

I'm just wrestling with the "other guns" question right now. Looking at two German guns, a 12 that's ready to go or a 16 that's going to need some work before it's ready to take into the field. Can't buy both. The 12 is pricey but beautiful now. The 16 is cheap now but will be fair when cost of repair is factored in. Decisions, decisions!!!!

Both are high grade 1900-1910 production guns. Both are priced at fractions of what equivalent quality English or American guns would be. If I go for the 16, will document rehabilitation here. It's an interesting gun.


Last edited by canvasback on Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:09 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Fox Sterlingworth 16
2 x Pieper Boxlock 16
Heym Boxlock 16
Citori 16
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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:54 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 601
Location: Hudson,Wy

Canvasback, whether or not you can do the work yourself is a huge factor when looking into a gun that needs to be brought up to snuff. I am very fortunate in that manner. Even so, careful work takes time. Time that can be spent chasing birds or catching fish. Decisions, decisions! I guess balance is the key and I'm not talking about the gun's handling qualities.

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16'er
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:21 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 805
Location: Tappahannock, Virginia

Starting to look for another sxs to fill some space in the safe. I have sold a couple of autoloaders and a LC Smith that had stock issues to free up some capital. All were guns I was not shooting, and probably wouldn't anymore.

Leaning toward an Ideal, have always wanted a round body gun. Also the uniqueness of the action and weight are intriguing. Also would consider a nice Helice box lock, Sauer sidelock or sideplated Nimrod.

A nice Spanish XXV pattern gun might be a good choice for me too. Most of the sidelocks are a bit on the heavy side for my desires, though.

My Ugartechea Parker Hale is 6.25lbs and I'd like to come in under that in weight. 6lbs or even less is the target. I'm thinking this might be a long deliberate process, as it's more than I've spent on a gun before.
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Riflemeister
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:36 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 27 Jun 2012
Posts: 477

Over the past several years I find myself doing most of my bird hunting with a pair of Spanish Zabala built 16 ga's. The first was a BSA Classic with 26" barrels, single selective trigger, round knob stock, semi-beavertail fore end and Briley Thinwall chokes. it weighs 6 pounds 12 ounces and handles the Fiocchi Golden Pheasant loads I like to shoot out west without objectionable recoil while being pleasant to carry all those miles. The second Zabala built gun is a Tristar Brittany with 27" barrels that came with screw in chokes that I had restocked by Wenig to exactly mirror the BSA Classic. The Tristar came with a mechanical trigger where the BSA has an inertia trigger, but other than that, they are nearly identical. The innards on these guns look more like an O/U with coil sprung hammers and sears curving around, but they have proven to be very reliable over several very ambitious hunting seasons. They are neither classic in any sense of the word, nor high dollar hunting guns (unless you consider the Wenig stock upgrade), but they have proven to be real work horses in the bird fields.

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:05 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 233
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

16er,

I do recommend the late 1800's Side Lock 16 Gauge Sauer double guns with fine Krupp Barrels, especially as a Grouse and Woodcock gun. Look around and you will probably be able to pick one up for reasonable money.

I recently returned one to our family collection of Bird Guns, and it's a well made double gun, that really puts the birds down.

Some people do not like the stock cheek piece on these early guns. I see no problem with it what so ever.

I use the 2 1/2" SpredR shells in her and it's my idea of a fine Grouse Gun, right down to the cocking indicators and double ivory sight beads.

My guns get used every year in the Grouse Woods, and this one is a pure pleasure to carry and shoot. Well worth the money, J.P. Sauer built some fine Best German Guns.

Pine Creek/Dave

http://jpgmag.com/photos/3862672

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UncleDanFan
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:16 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 06 Apr 2007
Posts: 2625
Location: The Great Northwet

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Husqvarna's yet. I own five, all hammer guns except for a newfangled 50's era 350 skeet hammerless model with a vent rib, straight grip, dt, and beavertail forend. Only one of its kind I've ever seen for sale. Shot a 24 with it the other day. Because of their relative quality and affordability, Husky's made me switch from collecting Syracuse Lefevers.

Husky's are very well made guns, with a Sauer influence, and similar quality. My mod. 100 16ga hammer gun is my dedicated chukar gun, and weighs right at 6lbs. My 103c 12ga hammer gun has a special order 2 3/4" heavy barrel, choked xf/xf, which I'm going to open to m/xf. What a duck gun. My mod. 44 16ga is a 31.5" barnard damascus gun that I take out for pheasants and quail. Also very rare.

Best of all, I shoot very well with all of them. Wink

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Great Odin's Raven! Is that a 16?
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:27 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 233
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

UncleDanFan,

Got to admit I have a LeFever that puts down the Grouse every bit as well as my Sauer 16 Grouse gun. I use 2 1/2" shells in both guns, love them both.

RGD/Dave

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Griffon
PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:18 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 252
Location: maine

Unless it's a very poor gun fit which you should notice, I would dare say it's the person pulling the trigger not the gun when it comes to the taking of birds.

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