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<  16ga. Ammunition & Reloading  ~  Vintage 2-9/16" 16 ga. Shells
Cass
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:47 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 07 Feb 2008
Posts: 62

I picked up a bunch of older Remington 2-9/16" Shur Shot 16 ga. shells recently. They're paper shells with fiber wads. I was originally just going to shoot them in my 1925 Winchester M12. The boxes are in better shape than I thought, so now I'm having second thoughts. I'll post a few pics below.

There are also some older 2-3/4" shells with the "new Remington crimp". Pretty cool to see them.

What do you you guys think?

Thanks,
Cass

















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skeettx
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:58 pm  Reply with quote
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I think you should buy a lottery ticket Smile

I have some and do like to hunt with them and an old gun, really brings back the memories and the smell is awesome.



Mike


Last edited by skeettx on Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:05 pm; edited 2 times in total

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gunut
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:00 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 05 Nov 2005
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Location: Sussex Wisconsin

nice if you collect shells.....but should make nice smelling nostalgic dove loads also...and you could still be a shotshell box collector.....

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kgb
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:54 pm  Reply with quote
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I buy old shells like those and hunt with them. Had it pointed out the old paper hulls with pie crimps are reliable while roll crimps may not be. Next shot I took with one of my roll crimp shells was a dud. Cost me a shot at a quail, or from his point of view saved him a loud noise and possibly worse!

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67galaxie
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:06 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Mar 2017
Posts: 106
Location: Valdosta GA

I have some and a couple of cases of paper western x shells. I can't wait until dove season!
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Cass
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:48 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 07 Feb 2008
Posts: 62

Thanks for the feedback. I have two more boxes of these same shells with the top flap torn or corner spilt, so I'll shoot them first and make sure they function alright.

There were also a few loose shells that had probably been carried, so I cut a couple shells open. There was some slight oxidation on a few pellets but they weren't clumped at all. The powder looked perfect.

kgb, I hadn't heard that about roll crimps before. I wonder why that would make a difference on reliability.

Cass
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kgb
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:28 am  Reply with quote
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Cass, it's not the crimp itself, rather the era when they were produced--seems logical once pie crimps were developed the roll crimps soon faded. Mike Campbell pointed out the timeline to me http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15176&highlight=arrow

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Bore, n. Shotgun enthusiast's synonym for "gauge" ; everybody else's synonym for "shotgun enthusiast." - Ed Zern
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Cass
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:08 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 07 Feb 2008
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kgb wrote:
Cass, it's not the crimp itself, rather the era when they were produced--seems logical once pie crimps were developed the roll crimps soon faded. Mike Campbell pointed out the timeline to me http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15176&highlight=arrow


Got it, that makes sense.

Cass
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Cass
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:13 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 07 Feb 2008
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Here are a few pictures of one of the shells that I cut apart.

The corroded pellets were nearest the fiber wad, not near the end cap as I would have thought.

Also note the cardboard "ring" around the powder charge.

Cass









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fn16ga
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:10 am  Reply with quote
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Nice find . I have found that the old roll crimped loads are unreliable , and I won't use them for hunting .
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MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:51 am  Reply with quote
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Long ago, I found the "unreliability" part of old shells is most likely the primer, not the crimp or the powder or anything else. Shotgun ammo, especially paper, is not moisture proof. I think if paper shotshells are stored in high humidity conditions for a long time the primers go bad. Back in about 1966, I had a whole case (a wooden case of 500 rounds) of 2 1/2 inch Winchester Ranger 20 gauge roll crimped shells my dad brought home from Mississippi, that had been on the shelf in some old hardware store for decades. Every one I tried was a dud. First, I got a Lyman roll crimper (still have it!). Then I carefully unloaded each and every one of those shells using a pick and a wad screw, replaced the primers and reloaded and re-crimped them all -- one at a time -- with the same powder, wads and shot that came out of them. They shot great! I guess that's what you do during a North Dakota winter when you are a kid crazy about guns and ammo, with nothing much else to do after school. I can't believe I threw away all those perfect old boxes and I have no idea where the wooden case went. Such were the times before sporting collectibles became all the rage.
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goathoof
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:26 am  Reply with quote
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Another issue that is possible with the older shells with waxed wads is the factor of heat and the wax slowly migrating into the powder. I had loaded a box of brass shells several years back and tried firing them about a year later. They had the over powder nitro card with two waxed wads. They were stored in my barn which gets to nearly 100F in the summer. All of them were duds. I took them apart and found the powder soaked in wax. I suspect the primers may have been contaminated also.
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A5Mag12
PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:16 am  Reply with quote
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Nice find. I'd hate to waste them on doves. Sadly that's pretty much the only bird hunting we have around here. So few quail around here I'd feel bad killing one. So I just keep my old shells to look at and hold every once in a while and dream of something worth shooting them at.
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fn16ga
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:45 pm  Reply with quote
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MaximumSmoke wrote:
Long ago, I found the "unreliability" part of old shells is most likely the primer, not the crimp or the powder or anything else. Shotgun ammo, especially paper, is not moisture proof. I think if paper shotshells are stored in high humidity conditions for a long time the primers go bad. Back in about 1966, I had a whole case (a wooden case of 500 rounds) of 2 1/2 inch Winchester Ranger 20 gauge roll crimped shells my dad brought home from Mississippi, that had been on the shelf in some old hardware store for decades. Every one I tried was a dud. First, I got a Lyman roll crimper (still have it!). Then I carefully unloaded each and every one of those shells using a pick and a wad screw, replaced the primers and reloaded and re-crimped them all -- one at a time -- with the same powder, wads and shot that came out of them. They shot great! I guess that's what you do during a North Dakota winter when you are a kid crazy about guns and ammo, with nothing much else to do after school. I can't believe I threw away all those perfect old boxes and I have no idea where the wooden case went. Such were the times before sporting collectibles became all the rage.


MS I agree with that being a primer issue . But have shot alot fold crimped paper without issue . The rolled crimped shells are alot older .
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AmericanMeet
PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:53 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 26 Apr 2010
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Location: NCWa

Following a few duds, I investigated the primer issue awhile back and I understood that Remington and Winchester (I was unable to get info on Federal) changed primer compounds during the time they were making shotshells with rolled crimps. the older shells had primers that deteriorated with age and resulted in duds. Prior to the change to folded crimps the primer compound had been changed to the present recipe which ages better and has fewer misfires. I don't know the date of changeover in primers but if you can trackdown the date of manufacture by the lot number on the box you might have a better chance of determining if they're old or new type primers.
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