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<  16ga. Ammunition & Reloading  ~  Crimp issues with 7/8 oz. and DR-16
JBo
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:49 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Jan 2017
Posts: 8

I know there are similar threads pertaining to this on this forum, and I've read most of them but I'm still having problems with dished crimps. I am loading herter's cheddite hulls with 17.5 grns.(weighed) of green dot, DR16 wad seated with zero pressure and 7/8oz shot. I have adjusted crimp starter up and down, as well as played with cam and punch on final crimp station. I get near perfect crimps with 18 grns GD, SG16, and 1 oz shot in these hulls but I can't duplicate them with 7/8 oz and DR-16. What else can I adjust???

P.S. crimps are not severly dished, but dished none the less. I'd attach a pic if I could figure out how Embarassed


Last edited by JBo on Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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skeettx
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:56 pm  Reply with quote
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Hello JBo
Welcome on your first posting
What press are you using?
Good on the zero wad pressure
You could try backing off the crimp starter one half turn
Or
and I will get a HOWL for this, add a Cheerio (yes, breakfast cereal)
either under or over the shot
Mike


Last edited by skeettx on Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
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JBo
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:38 pm  Reply with quote



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I'm using a mec size-master.
I used a 1/16" nitro card in bottom of shot cup just to see if that helped...it didn't.
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skeettx
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:40 pm  Reply with quote
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Thanks
So you will need to place the cheerio on top after you drop the shot.
I use an M-IV Texan and a shorter shot drop tube, so I can put the cheerio
in before the shot drop
Mike

p.s. or you can seat the wad and raise the ram and insert the cheerio and then drop the shot, insuring to not stick the cheerio in the ram hole Smile

Mike


Last edited by skeettx on Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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JBo
PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:52 pm  Reply with quote



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So my stack height is the same with the dr wad and 7/8oz of shot as it is with 1 oz and the SG16 wad so why the dished crimps? The dr wad seems to compress alot easier than the sg. I'll try the cherrio but my question is if the nitro cards didn't help why would a cherrio?
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fn16ga
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:02 am  Reply with quote
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JBo

The dr16 wad has very soft legs by design ( self adjusting for different pay loads ) it is a great wad but can be tricky to load until you get the hang of it This works for me.Try moving your crimp starter down till you have just a small hole the size of about 2 pencil leads and use no cam at all ( all the way back ) and go down slightly slower when doing final crimp . Start there and adjust crimp starter from there, you may need a little more or you my get away with a little less .

This works for me , hope it helps you.

Best, Mark
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JBo
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:07 am  Reply with quote



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So my stack height is the same with the dr wad and 7/8oz of shot as it is with 1 oz and the SG16 wad so why the dished crimps? The dr wad seems to compress alot easier than the sg. I'll try the cherrio but my question is if the nitro cards didn't help why would a cherrio?
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skeettx
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:55 am  Reply with quote
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The cards are hard and compress the wad when crimped
The cheerios are frangible and do not compress the wad as much
Mike


Last edited by skeettx on Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dogchaser37
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:23 pm  Reply with quote
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I reload a fair amount of 7/8 oz. loads in Cheddite hulls (same as Herters) using DR16 wads. I actually throw 7/8 oz. of shot. I do not use MEC bars that typically throw less shot than they are marked. THIS is more important that you might think. And I do not use any fillers, food or otherwise.

Here is how it works, at least for me. I am using both a 9000G and a Sizemaster.

I seat the wad firmly on the powder but not enough pressure to crush the wad legs.

Crimp start is set to make the points of the folds touch when the crimp is completed, but not so much that they cause a swirl or a crush.

The cam on the Sizemaster is set just below center, enough to get a nice radius on the shoulder of the completed crimp. On the 9000 the cam is in the center, the final die takes care of the shoulder radius.

The punch is set for an approximate .055" crimp depth. For me this was the important adjustment and I slowly adjusted from a very shallow crimp down to what I wanted. 1/4 turn at a time. If you try to get a deep crimp, you will get some dishing.

I also reload some 3/4 oz. loads in Cheddite hulls using the DR16. These dish, not much, but they do dish a little.

You will find that you cannot change one adjustment without affecting the others, so patience and small adjustments are best to find the correct settings on your machine(s). The 9000 does a better job on the crimp and is easier to get right.

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JBo
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:56 pm  Reply with quote



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Thanks for the tips guys! Perhaps I have been too aggressive with my crimp starter and crimp die adjustments. Current set up and procedure is very close to what Mark described so I'll give it another try tomorrow evening and post my results. Another question: if crimps are slightly dished but my chronograph readings are consistent, and the crimps all look the same...would I still need to be concerned with pressure spikes,etc.?
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skeettx
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:19 pm  Reply with quote
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Not really
If it holds shot, and shoots well, and does what you want it to do, then the pretty crimps are just ego boosters Smile

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Dogchaser37
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:32 pm  Reply with quote
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Slightly dished crimps do not cause pressure spikes. The depth of the crimp at the shoulder is important.

7/8 oz. loads in a 16 gauge would have to be grossly messed up to ever be a safety concern.[/img]

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Dogchaser37
PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:40 pm  Reply with quote
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This photo shows the wad column height of a 7/8 oz. load. The load is 21.0 grains of Universal, DR16 wad 7/8 oz. of lead shot.





This next photo shows the typical crimp start.





Cheddite & Winchester hulls with 7/8 oz. load




Same exact load in a Federal hull no adjustments to the reloader. I like the way the Federal loads best.




Cheddite & Winchester hulls with a 3/4 oz. load with no adjustments to the reloader. The load is 18.0 grains American Select, DR16 wad and 3/4 oz of shot.





The cam position for all loads shown. Crimp depth is about .060" for these loads.


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Tom Shaffer
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:20 am  Reply with quote



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Location: Grampian, PA

Overshot card.
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16'er
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:46 am  Reply with quote
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Tom Shaffer wrote:
Overshot card.


That was my first thought too.
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