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John
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:03 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Sep 2009
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Was dove hunting yesterday and had 2 WW primers in my reloads that failed to fire. The curious thing was that the indentations in them was tiny. Like barely visible. All others fired well(about 30) Gun is a Citori. Anyone have an opinion or thought on the problem.(gun or primer)?

Thanks, John.
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Dogchaser37
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:25 am  Reply with quote
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That is a shotgun problem. On a Citori, you could have a bad firing pin, a bad hammer spring or the firing pin pockets could be filled with residue, which won't allow the firing pin to travel as far as it should which leads to light strikes.

The one other problem could be a thin rim on the hull, which allows the hull to resf too far into the chamber which would also give you a light firing pin strike.

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skeettx
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:41 am  Reply with quote
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OR when you set the primers, you pushed them in too hard and caused them to sink in. Use a straight edge to see if they are below the plane of the rim
Mike


Last edited by skeettx on Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ray-citori
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:20 am  Reply with quote



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First thing I would do is spray gun scrubber or similar product into the firing pin holes. If a bunch of crap comes out it will need a good cleaning by a GS
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:08 pm  Reply with quote
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skeettx wrote:
OR when you set the primers, you pushed them in too hard and caused them to sink in. Use a straight edge to see if they are below the plane of the rim
Mike


Mike is probably dead on target here. Most primer FTF problems with reloads are caused by incorrect and/or inconsistent seating depths. Since the problem seems to be intermittent, then start with the loads. There should be no more than the merest sliver if light between a straight edge and the primer cup in the center of the primer. Also make sure the outer edge of the primer battery cup is flush with the hull base but not below it by more than .001-.002".

One more thing to keep in mind here. Failing to sort hulls by brand and by age and amount of use will almost always lead to problems like inconsistent primer seating depths. I'm not saying you are doing this, but if so, then sort your hulls by brand, age and times reloaded into separate lots. Primer pockets get worn and stretched each time a hull is reloaded. Hulls also vary some from manufacturing lot to lot over time. Just how it is.

If the primer seating depths are okay, then next clean out the firing pin ports with a bit of spray solvent and a pipe cleaner. The ports accumulate junk over time which will impede the pin. It's not a bad idea to do this fairly regularly as well. It only takes a minute or so, so make it part of the clean up after a shoot or a hunt.

If all else fails, then it's time to have the gun looked at. But doing so first is usually an expensive mistake.


Last edited by 16gaugeguy on Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dogchaser37
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:28 pm  Reply with quote
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Seating primers incorrectly in a shotgun hull is improbable, unless ypu are standing on the reloading machines handle.

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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:34 pm  Reply with quote
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Dogchaser37 wrote:
Seating primers incorrectly in a shotgun hull is improbable, unless ypu are standing on the reloading machines handle.


My thoughts exactly DC. It's usually the size of the primers vs the size of the primer pockets which causes the problem. Best match them up first before reloading IMO. I should have mentioned this above.
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oldhunter
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:46 pm  Reply with quote
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With all you ex-spurts there, I didn't see one question asking if it happened in just one barrel or both? Remember the problems a few years past?

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John
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:24 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Sep 2009
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Thanks guys. All good replies. I did a search on this(should have done that first) and this must be a fairly common problem with Citori's. I gave the action a good cleaning today. Been a while since I had it apart. Hopefully that will cure it as it was dirty. And DC, your reply made me chuckle. Thanks.

John
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putz463
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:58 am  Reply with quote
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If it turns out to not be a cleaning or mechanical issue.

Speaking from first hand experience here and with a nod toward the posts suggesting deep seated primers as culprits, another possibility is if the reloaded hulls were previously fired in a gun that dishes/dents in the bottom of the hull (say an 11-48 ) ...dished in hulls with primers not level with the rim of the hull will produce FTF's as well. This, more often than not, is the main FTF issue in my Citori or once in a while in other O/U's.

Best of luck figuring out your FTF issue.

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kgb
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:23 am  Reply with quote
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putz463 wrote:
If it turns out to not be a cleaning or mechanical issue.

Speaking from first hand experience here and with a nod toward the posts suggesting deep seated primers as culprits, another possibility is if the reloaded hulls were previously fired in a gun that dishes/dents in the bottom of the hull (say an 11-48 ) ...dished in hulls with primers not level with the rim of the hull will produce FTF's as well. This, more often than not, is the main FTF issue in my Citori or once in a while in other O/U's.

Best of luck figuring out your FTF issue.


Does that 11-48 dish all types of hulls? Any other gun you aware of doing this? For a time I noticed dished brass with some cases but all shells were set aside in the same box no matter the gun from which fired.

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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:33 pm  Reply with quote
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John wrote:
Thanks guys. All good replies. I did a search on this(should have done that first) and this must be a fairly common problem with Citori's. I gave the action a good cleaning today. Been a while since I had it apart. Hopefully that will cure it as it was dirty. And DC, your reply made me chuckle. Thanks.

John


It turned out that in most cases, the problem was w/ some lots of the Remington RGL factory loads. turns out the commercial grade primers used in these loads were too hard. Guns other than the Citori models had FTF problems.

Lately, we have been hearing about pierced primers in RGL loads. Seems like the problem has gone from pillar to post.
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3crosses
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:28 pm  Reply with quote
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Hard to explain, but, I will try. A Citori has deeper headspace

Look here. This thread explains it better than I. Especiallty if you are shooting double AA's. Be sure to read the 6th post. It explains the issue with Winchester hulls and Citori headspace.
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=458322&p=3760752&hilit=Citori&sid=055552d7677c3fd9d27aa14df987eb87#p3760752
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JNW
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:52 am  Reply with quote



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John,
Top or bottom barrel? This is usually a bottom barrel issue if its the gun.
Jeff
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John
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:31 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Sep 2009
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