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Brewster11
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:24 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 474
Location: Western WA

Patterned the 16 x 8x57 and the choke is tight! First photo shows 16yd POI patterns (5) compared to (1) M12 Mod pattern. Looks to be about 8 in. at 16 yds. Second photo shows 40 yd pattern, 36" measurement mark is to edge of steel plate, so total pattern fits comfortably in 36" circle at 40 yds! Barrel is stamped "16 . 9", unsure what that signifies.

This of course is quite useless for forest grouse, the intended use. Question is whether to open up choke or install tubes, either will likely damage value of gun. Can't imagine spreader loads would open up pattern as much as needed.

Suggestions?

TIA
B.

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skeettx
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:48 pm  Reply with quote
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Try spreader loads

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goathoof
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:43 am  Reply with quote
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I have two 16 ga drillings and the chokes are extra-full. To open the patterns, I load with nitro card and waxed fiber wads. See if that can help. I have not needed to do it; but you could try a spreader with the nitro/fiber wads also.
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Gil S
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:16 pm  Reply with quote
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Spreader loads from Polywad should open the pattern up to what a modified would do at 25 yards. Worth trying. Gil
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67galaxie
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:48 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Mar 2017
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Location: Valdosta GA

X2
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Carlos
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:29 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 466
Location: Victoria BC Canada

Any sort of combination gun has to be designed for the most demanding use that can reasonably be expected. Hence the tight chokes. Once this is recognized, the rule of thumb that "change the cheapest part of the system" comes into play. Rather than change the gun, adapt the ammo by using spreader loads. There are a number of options besides looking for commercially available ammo. Reloaders can do quite a bit, and the techniques are venerable and knowledge is widespread. I recall an article from the '60's, about "Put and Take chokes", Francis Sell, I think.

Techniques can be as simple as changing to card & cushion wads, cutting the petals off your usual plastic wads, and/or using Spredr inserts. I even tried making and inserting "x" shaped inserts in the wad column The best ones I found were made by stapling two cutoff wad petals back to back.I gave that up as way too time consuming, and bought a supply of spreadr inserts.

P.S; Of course a lot of patterning is required, but you do that anyway! Don't you?
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Brewster11
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:50 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 474
Location: Western WA

Gil, Carlos,

Thanks, I ordered some Polywad shells for this season. They look promising, and they come in 2 1/2 in. loads! I will also experiment with spreader components, should be interesting to see how they work out.

B.
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16'er
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:21 pm  Reply with quote
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If you load, a higher velocity chilled shot fiber wad load with a spreader insert should open up a good bit. 7/8oz load or 3/4 might help too...
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JonP
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:49 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
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Location: MN

Unless this is a very valuable gun, I would open the choke to what you need. Practically all Euro combo guns (or at least the German makes) come full choked from the factory and many owners open the choke to what they need. If you have a true collector gun, then disregard my comments. But with a Sauer 54, or a Heym 55, and any of the non grade guns, I wouldn't worry.
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Carlos
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:58 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 May 2010
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Location: Victoria BC Canada

16'er wrote:
If you load, a higher velocity chilled shot fiber wad load with a spreader insert should open up a good bit. 7/8oz load or 3/4 might help too...


I woiuld expect softer shot to give slightly more open patterns due to more shot deformation. I concur that faster velocity and smaller shot tend to open patterns a bit.
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UncleDanFan
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:40 am  Reply with quote
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JonP wrote:
Unless this is a very valuable gun, I would open the choke to what you need. Practically all Euro combo guns (or at least the German makes) come full choked from the factory and many owners open the choke to what they need. If you have a true collector gun, then disregard my comments. But with a Sauer 54, or a Heym 55, and any of the non grade guns, I wouldn't worry.


+1

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Great Odin's Raven! Is that a 16?
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Dave in Maine
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:03 pm  Reply with quote



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The "16 9" stamped on the barrel is the bore diameter in millimeters, i.e., 16.9 mm.

That's a little on the tight side for a 16 gauge, which ordinarily comes in with a 17.0 mm.

But the bores will vary, depending on the gun, maker, era when made, and such, somewhere between 16.9 and 17.1. This stamping also gives you a good basis for comparison, so you can decide whether the bore has been reamed....

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Brewster11
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:06 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Feb 2009
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Location: Western WA

Quote:
The "16 9" stamped on the barrel is the bore diameter in millimeters, i.e., 16.9 mm


Thanks Dave.

I don't have a choke gauge but a simple digital caliper ID measurement at the muzzle showed .620" which equates to about 15.75mm. The OD is .756".

So if the bore is 16.9mm then the constriction is 1.15mm or .045" which is quite severe.

Since there is no choke indication stamped on the barrel, I wonder if this was one of those guns that was delivered with a raw extra tight choke and intended to be opened up to suit the customer. If this is the case, then a set of tubes might fit the bill nicely, or simply opening it up to IC for grouse.

I already had an opportunity to use it on a spruce grouse, but declined, as the poor bird has been seen twice at the same location on the side of the road, from whence it proceeds to run across the road in front of the vehicle, with wingtips outstretched and collar raised, and thence to glare indignantly at the vehicle from the roadside as it passes by.
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Brewster11
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:18 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Feb 2009
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Location: Western WA

The results with the Spreader loads from Polywad, 2 1/2", 1 oz, 7 1/2 are quite impressive. Bottom pattern is Combi Gun extra full 2 1/2" SG16 Wad, 1 oz #9, top pattern is with Polywad Spreader Load 2 1/2", 1 oz #7 1/2, both at 20 yds.

Except for a string of fliers at lower right, the pattern is surprisingly even for such an extreme change, and will be great for grouse and quail.


Here is same with two other 2 1/2" guns, leftmost is Combi gun @ 20 yd, middle is M12 Modified @ 16 yd, right is A-5 Open Cyl @ 16 yd. Lower are SG16 wads, upper are Polywad Spreader rounds. A 12 in. scale is shown on the LH pattern. The spreader loads on the latter two guns are correspondingly wider but have open holes near the center, possibly from the spreader device:


So I will probably reserve the Polywad Spreader rounds for the Combi gun where they are most needed. At some point I will likely open up the Combi gun choke, but for now the Spreader rounds will suffice.

Thanks,
B.
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skeettx
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:34 pm  Reply with quote
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Great posting and pictures
Thanks
Mike

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