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Veryoldman
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:36 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 25 Sep 2017
Posts: 17
Location: Southeast

I am recopying something I saw on the I'net last night. Copy follows:
"Therefore, recoil operated firearms work best with a cartridge that yields a momentum approximately equal to that for which the mechanism was optimized"

My question is, "just how is this optimization determined"? Did the manufacturer suggest this or perhaps is this left to the legions of persons that do their own
loading?

Thank you, Linn
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Cheyenne08
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:04 pm  Reply with quote
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Veryoldman wrote:
I am recopying something I saw on the I'net last night. Copy follows:
"Therefore, recoil operated firearms work best with a cartridge that yields a momentum approximately equal to that for which the mechanism was optimized"

My question is, "just how is this optimization determined"? Did the manufacturer suggest this or perhaps is this left to the legions of persons that do their own
loading?

BS, what that is saying in more words than necessary is that you have to have a round go off with enough force to operate the mechanism.

Not rocket science.

Dale
Thank you, Linn

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pbeaver
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:43 am  Reply with quote
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The shotguns were "optimized" for the ammo that was in production when they were designed.... so like Dale said, if you are going to load lighter, you need to find a load that meets the amount of force needed to still operate the action. In the long recoil auto-5 type actions part of the "optimization" is the friction ring position. Oiling or removing oil from the magazine tube also allows you to "optimize" for your load. With the Benelli system, Either you have enough momentum to compress the spring to unlock the action, or you don't. Load adjustment is the only answer that I know of.

Phil
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3crosses
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:43 am  Reply with quote
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Over a hundred years old, and the brilliance of Mr Browning is still showing through.
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AmericanMeet
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:51 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 2941
Location: NCWa

I don't know what process FN/Browning used to calibrate the A5 mechanism, but at least on the Light twelve that my dad had, there was a split ring that went on the magazine tube. If placed in one way it had less friction and allowed the action to cycle with light ammo. If the ring was inverted the friction was increased and the action would cycle with heavy loads. the gun was made in 1953 and last I heard it was still operating as designed.
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Veryoldman
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:58 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 25 Sep 2017
Posts: 17
Location: Southeast

Had 2 boxes of RST ammo and one of Fiocchi Performance follows:

Box 1 RST length of round 2 1/2 , load 7/8oz, Shot 8, velocity 1125
Performance Unacceptable, all attempts jammed with first shot

Box 2 RST(marked by RST as A5) length of round 2 1/2, load 1 oz, shot 8, velocity 1200
Performance Unacceptable, all attempts jammed with first shot

Box 3 Fiocchi length 2 3/4, load 1 oz, Shot 8, velocity 1165
Performance Totally acceptable. Absolutely ripped 3 rounds more than once with not even a hint of jamming

Comments
Before attempting any shots I put a drop of oil on the magazine tube
All shots were taken at "light" setup Didn't have time to try "heavy" setup

Conclusion So far, use Fiocchi
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CitoriFeather16
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:13 pm  Reply with quote
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Interesting. Thr RST A5 load didn't work? I think it's 1 OSU at 1200 fps.?

Matt
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Veryoldman
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:24 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 25 Sep 2017
Posts: 17
Location: Southeast

That is correct I intend at first opportunity to set the recoil mech on heavy and see what happens
I haven't given up on the A5 1200 ammo, will continue to evaluate





Thr RST A5 load didn't work? I think it's 1 OSU at 1200 fps.?

Matt[/quote]
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3crosses
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:26 am  Reply with quote
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So the 2.75 hull you tried worked and the 2-2.5 loads didn't. Interesting.
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putz463
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:26 am  Reply with quote
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Just a thought, before oiling the tube did you thoroughly clean the friction ring and tube with something that would cut through any old gummy oil?

Do you have an O/U or SxS? If so and you shoot the same 3 different shells do you notice any recoil differences? I know some shells by nature have very different felt recoil all else (internal ballistics) being equal. RGL's to my shoulder have a much sharper recoil than most others and a bud who shoots Fio's reports the same "sharpness" when he uses them.

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Veryoldman
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:09 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 25 Sep 2017
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Location: Southeast

Didn't notice any difference in recoil.
Gun had been to Art's for a strip and clean-probably in the best shape it had been in for a while Art suggests going from light to heavy setting for evaluation I have to drive a couple of hours to do this so it make take a while
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DanLee
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:19 am  Reply with quote
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I've never had any luck with less than 1 oz shot in my two Sweet Sixteens nor my Sportsman 48. Just the way it is.
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Veryoldman
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:54 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 25 Sep 2017
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Location: Southeast

Note that my one oz RST loads (2 1/2) jammed while1 oz Fiocci loads(2 3/4) worked fine Problem appears length related not weight related
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tdnathens
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:14 pm  Reply with quote
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On all my recoil operated A-5 type guns I use the following ring setting on any load that would not operate the action when adjusted to the normal light load settings. The brass friction piece is moved next to the receiver. The steel friction ring is installed between the spring and the barrel lug with the flat side toward the barrel lug. This is a factory recommend setting in some early manuals. On one very light load in cold weather I had to remove the metal friction ring completely. I have worked on some A-5's that were shot for years with no friction pieces installed at all. They complained to me that they kicked too hard!

Tom
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Dave In AZ
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:28 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Oct 2015
Posts: 224

I don't see anywhere where the OP mentions what GUN he's shooting? How can there be a discussion on ammo not functioning... if we don't even know what gun it's being shot out of?

Maybe an Auto 5? Maybe an 11-48? Maybe something else. How's the gun function with other loads? How's it work with Herters, or Federal, 1oz or 9/8oz?

In any case, if it's an Auto 5, then I'd think with all of them out there someone here could just say what loads work well in the gun-- what's it take to make the thing function reliably, in payload weight and speed?
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