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<  16ga. Ammunition & Reloading  ~  #6 or # 7 1/2 for pheasants?
Larry Brown
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 7:45 am  Reply with quote
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Just got back from a preserve shoot I did as part of "article research". (I really love the "research" part of my job.) I took along a 28, which I've never used much on pheasants, not even preserve birds, to see how it would work out. Flat missed the first bird I shot at; killed the next 27 in a row (I think 3 or 4 2nd barrels involved), including a couple doubles. Started with my 3/4 oz reloads, 7 shot--same pellet count as an ounce of 6's; only took one box of those, used some Fiocchi Golden Pheasant 7/8 oz 7 1/2 also. Both loads seemed to work about equally well.

I'd be very selective shooting 7 1/2's at wild birds, but they definitely work OK over points. We're well into late season stuff here now, and I'm still shooting my wild ones with the same loads I was using at the start of the season: 1 1/16 oz Brit 6's in the R barrel (they're about 6.6, American size), 1 1/8 oz American 6's left. That's out of a Brit 12, which is essentially an American 16 with a British name on it.Smile Have yet to feel undergunned, underchoked (R barrel is 005, L 025), or under-shot sized.
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MGF
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:42 pm  Reply with quote
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Great shooting, Larry ... hope you don't have to clean 'em all yourself!
I do limit the 7.5s to state-released and game farmers. Wild, I go 6s in the first tube and 5s in the second.
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 1:06 pm  Reply with quote
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MGF, how long you been toting that banana? Sooner or later, someone is bound to say something. Laughing
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MGF
PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:47 am  Reply with quote
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Come on, 16gg, it says bandanna. Smile Wouldn't go hunting w/o a big 'ol farmer-style handkerchief in red or blue tucked in my back right pocket. A zillion uses.
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Hal M. Hare
PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:43 am  Reply with quote
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Larry-
Nice shooting! The 28 gauge is under appreciated and under rated. It can be effective with proper loads--and makes carrying a non-issue.

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chilly460
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:44 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 166

My personal experience comes from 12ga, I'm a late bloomer and only coming to the 16ga as of late so my apologies.

I only have hunted at game preserves, so I know my experience may not be valid to others hunting wild birds out West.

We use #6s, they usually do a terrific job of planting birds. Cripples are the exception by far, not the rule. But, I have seen some straight away birds not perfectly centered that were somewhat intact when they hit the ground. Further inspection showed they had been hit pretty well with 6-8 pellets in them, but most just caught up in the legs or backside with no vitals hit. I'm talking birds at 40yds. Like anyone, I really hate to see a cripple, so this has made me move to using #5s for the second shot. I still load #6s for first shot. I know these birds are supposed to be soft and easy to kill, but they still do flush early at times causing some longer shots. I need to pattern my 16ga's, I may have to just go with higher velocity #6s to give more oomph but still retain pattern density. I always use high quality ammo, figuring I'm paying $100+ to hunt, what's another $4 for plated shot ammo that will penetrate better.

As for 7.5s, I see that a LOT of more experienced guys here use them so I can appreciate that they do work for some folks. Also, for a 16ga I think they fill the pattern nicely. A fella I didn't know hunted with us last year and shot a couple pheasant straight going away that were hit pretty well. Big tufts of feathers were blown off the birds at 30yds or so, but they were very much intact and hard for the dog to recover. After the second time of this happening, I asked to see what he was shooting. Some type of Federal low brass 7.5s @ 1200fps. I'm guessing it may have been just chilled shot target stuff, but it didn't come close to penetrating the bird. We did a collective hunt so I ended up with one of the birds, it was full of pellets right under the skin. Many of them simply get caught up in the tough myofascial layer over the muscle. On a crosser or quartering shot, I'm sure they'd get to vitals no problem. Just as a side note, I took a milk jug out to a field and shot it at 25-30yds with one of my reload of 7.5s@1200fps using good magnum shot and quite a number of the pellets did not penetrate both sides of the empty jug. I understand the plastic of a milk jug is actually pretty tough material, but it didn't inspire confidence in me that the 7.5s would punch through feathers, bone, and muscle to get to vitals on shots at 30yds or more.

I doubt anyone is going to change anyone else's mind, guys using 7.5s will think a guy using 5's is nuts and that's ok. I just want to make sure the birds that I shoot are stapled when they're hit and don't suffer needlessly. Some of the guys I hunt with (and some would argue me as well) aren't crack shots, so I think the bigger shot helps bring birds down when not centered in the pattern.
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AmarilloMike
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 3:03 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 03 Jul 2005
Posts: 370
Location: Amarillo, Texas

I am not recommending any shot size for pheasant.

If you leave the chokes the same #2 shot runs out of pattern before #9. #9 runs out of penetration before #2.

I read in either Gough Thomas or Burrard that 3 pellets was considered the minimum number for a likely kill (running out of pattern). Thomas wrote an entire chapter on a Winchester test that shot several hundred ducks at varying angles and with different size shots. Autopsies were performed and the results studied, recorded, graphed, and thoroughly analyzed. #7s came out very good if not the best.

My personal best guess is #6s for the wild pheasant I hunt but I would happily and confidently shoot 5s or 7-1/2s if that was all I had.

Sometimes I like to put smaller shot in the right barrel and larger in the left just to maximize the two choke/two trigger set up on my SxS game gun. Just pleases the anal retentive side of my personality - I sure wouldn't try to defend it in a debate.

Thanks!

Mike

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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:17 am  Reply with quote
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I was shooting over pretty good pointing dogs--both my own and the preserve's. Only had one bird that ran very far. That was the 2nd bird of a double I shot, so he was a little farther out, and the dog was delayed in going after him because he was bringing back the first one. Had one other that flew for 200-250 yards, but he then dropped out of the sky and was stone dead where we found him.

As I said, no way would I recommend 7 1/2's on wild birds, because I don't want even one of my two shots limited to 30 yards. 7 1/2 retained energy at 30 yards is the same as 6's at 50 yards, and I certainly wouldn't rely on 6's at 50 yards--even if I were inclined to shoot pheasants at that range. But you've got so many more pellets when using 7 1/2's that I think you end up with a cumulative shock effect, even if you don't get penetration of the backbone (which you probably won't at 30 yards), plus a much higher probability of a head strike, as well as breaking legs and wings.
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Little Creek
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:33 am  Reply with quote
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Wild pheasant take more persuasion than what we call "P-Burds" (pen raised birds.) Ill second Larry, based also on my experience with the last 120 wild birds in my record. Between # 6 and #7-1/2...no contest...#6. I like #5 in my 12 gauge bored .007/.032, over my springer. Besides, who wants more shot in a bird for the table? (By the way, try ground pheasant...it's really good!)

By the way, Cush now has two pheasant hunts in Washington and South Dakota under his belt. Still no 16 bore. He tells me shooting a sixteen is just taking a 12 and a 20 and diving by two. No big difference.

Cush just finished doing an outstanding job bending a stock for me...something he does really well!

Happy New Year all! Is anyone still hunting wild pheasant now? Wish I was, too!

Mike
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Wolfchief
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 11:58 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Oct 2004
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Location: Indiana

So far, I've used #6's in the Winchester Super X Double X's that I shoot in my 20 gauges. In the 16, I've used both 5's and 6's in 1 1/8 oz. factory loads and like them both for wild birds. In South Dakota I used #5's in a full choked Model 12 to shoot most of the birds this year and that worked fine, as the shots tended to be a bit further out. I like 5's as a stopper.

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Birdswatter
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 1:50 pm  Reply with quote
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Quote:
I like #5 in my 12 gauge bored .007/.032, over my springer


12 gauge? What's a 12 gauge?!?!? Confused
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MGF
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:50 pm  Reply with quote
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I'm switching to the Remington Express 1 1/8 oz of No. 6 in the bottom barrel. Was using the Express in 7.5 in the first tube, choked IC, yesterday and took two hens on put-and-take state grounds. Both had too many pellets in the breast. One was a pooch of a shot, so I can understand that. The second, though, was a fast crosser a good ways out, and she, too, had a lot of pellets in her.
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AmarilloMike
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 10:18 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 03 Jul 2005
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Location: Amarillo, Texas

I was wrong about what Gough Thomas wrote on the Winchester / duck test.

First error - it was the "American Bureau of Sport Fisheries & Wildlife" that sponsored the test.

Second error - the test compared #4 and #6 shot. The #6 shot came out better. #7 shot was not tested - Gough speculated that #7 might be the best up to 50 yards - even though it was not tested.

2100 mallards were shot. Most of them broadside and 15 degree elevation. Only 300 were shot head on.

In the broadside instant-dead analysis they tested at 30, 40, 45, 50, 55, 60, and 65 yards. In 6 out the seven (broadside) yardages the #6 was about 5% better than the #4s. In one case they were equal (30 yards).

In the head-on instant-dead they tested at 40 and 50 yards. The #6s were slightly better than the #4s at 40 yards. The #4s were twice as effective as the #6s at 50 yards - 20% to 8%.

Gough also furnished a graph where the mallards that had a broken wing AND were dead in five minutes were added to the instant-dead mallards. In that analysis the #6 shot does much better than the #4 at 55, 60 and 65 yards.

A rooster with a broken wing that lives for five minutes is not "definitely in the bag." Apparently going-away-shot analysis was not done so again that is not applicable to most rooster shots.

Sorry for the misinformation.


Mike

PS - all loads were 12 gauge 1-1/4 oz.

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Wolfchief
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:16 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Oct 2004
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This is a very interesting topic and one that has consumed some of my time in the last 16 years of duck and pheasant hunting. No one likes to leave cripples in the field and we like to match the load to the intended quarry. I wonder if, just in my own case and speaking only for myself, I haven't overemphasized the shot size. Upon reflection, I have killed both ducks and roosters, near and far,with all three major shot sizes we most often see recommended for them---#4, #5 and #6 (of course, where the ducks are concerned, I'm writing of non-toxic shot, primarily Bismuth in my case).

I have shot these birds, with maybe at the max, a dozen cripples lost over the last 16 years (ducks and pheasants total)--- using the three major gauges you'd find commonly used on these larger birds---12, 16 and 20. A variety of guns and chokes were used---pumps, side by sides, autos and over/unders, from skeet choke to full. The usual double gun combo was IC/Mod, but the 20 ga. Silverhawk and the 16 ga. Citori I use most often now, are choked Cylinder and IC. Most of the loads I use are 1 oz. to 1 1/8 oz.

I find that a couple of axioms hold true, for me at least:

1. If you hit the bird well forward and put some shot in a vital area, it typically doesn't matter which combination of the above you have used and

2. The more I worry about it, the worse I seem to do.

Practicing my shooting skills on skeet or sporting clays and then using a good dog (the best I can afford) and following it into the best cover I can find, will result in the most success for me. Good shooting and hunting in 2007 !!

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Hal M. Hare
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:50 am  Reply with quote
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I finally settled on using the #7 1/2's in the first barrel, and the #6's [when needed] for the second. These were preseve birds taht were flushing fairly close. I suspect that at 25 yards it makes no difference--hit them and they stay down!

Best New Year Wishes to all!

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