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< 16ga. General Discussion ~ NEW GUNS |
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Posted:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:34 am
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Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 429
Location: Maine
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ROMAC has a nice RBL 16 at a very reasonable price for sale on this site. Made in the USA. |
_________________ If it weren't for women cats would be extinct. |
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Posted:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:40 pm
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Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 90
Location: At the edge of a Florida marsh
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To be honest I have a hankering for a new bolt action rifle for southern pine goats and maybe a future western muley. Thinking a 6.5 Swede or maybe a .243. |
_________________ Never get out of the boat unless you're willing to go all the way |
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Posted:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:07 pm
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Member
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Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9463
Location: Amarillo, Texas
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I like my OLD Remington 721 in 30-06
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Last edited by skeettx on Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Posted:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:05 pm
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Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 90
Location: At the edge of a Florida marsh
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I like it.
![Shocked](images/smiles/icon_eek.gif) |
_________________ Never get out of the boat unless you're willing to go all the way |
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Posted:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:51 pm
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Member
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Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9463
Location: Amarillo, Texas
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Same gun
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_________________
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USAF RET 1971-95 |
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Posted:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:48 pm
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Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2800
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa
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Buckwheat,
Lots of American Classic SXS double guns to choose form, L.C. Smith, LeFever, Winchester, Remington, Ect Some of the very best 16 guns ever made.
Don't limit yourself to a modern made 16 double gun, when the classics are incredible.
Pine Creek/Dave |
_________________ "L.C. Smith America's Best" - John Houchins
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers |
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Posted:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:18 am
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Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2800
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa
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Buckwheat,
Welcome to the 16 Forum, we have good people here.
As for a new modern 16, there are still some Uggie 16 Grade IV & V guns floating around for sale, real nice side lock double guns to be sure, with serious Spanish style engraving. They recently closed up shop however, they are now getting harder to acquire.
Some of the Browning Citori 16's still around on the Net also. Taking a look at the Shooting Sportsman Magazine this month Rizzini has a new Artemis Deluxe 16 Gauge O/U that looks very interesting. Grouse engravings and all.
If you really want a nice 16 take a look at the American Classic 16 double guns. L.C. Smith made some of the finest 16 double guns ever produced. Parker, LeFever, Fox and others have great 16 double guns also.
Pine Creek/Dave
Pre 13, L.C. Smith Special Order 16 Gauge 2 Barrel Set.
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_________________ "L.C. Smith America's Best" - John Houchins
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers |
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Posted:
Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:42 am
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Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 90
Location: At the edge of a Florida marsh
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Skeettx,
I like it. I like it a lot. Thanks for adding fuel to my future Muley hunt. Think I’m gonna do some window shopping today, a new rifle is in order. |
_________________ Never get out of the boat unless you're willing to go all the way |
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Posted:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:37 am
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Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 25
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A lot o people are recommending used guns and with good reason. However, do a lot of research before you buy any of the used SXS. Go to the collectors forums, etc and rerad about each. You will pay a lot for certian guns in equal conditions over others. and some although they are good guns dont have quite the collectors value as others, and can be bought cheaper. Foxes and Parkers command a higher price than i think they should for boxlocks. Lefers are great guns but usually about double the very similar (looking at least) LC smith side locks.
Almost all pre war 16s will have stock issues, thin barrels, short chambers, and way more choke than needed with todays shotshells. If you shoot them as is you will likely be ordering low pressure rounds on the internet or handloading.
i drank the LC smith coolaid mainly because i liked the way the 16 ga fether weight looked. Any of the Armour steel barrells will handle modern loads. The stocks will too if the PO took care of the gun properly but since there are so many cracked LC stocks out there it raely happens.
The LC 16ga made after WW2 had a alittle more material in the stock. THey will also have 2-3/4 chambers, the only drawback to these guns is that everyone i have seen has very thin barrels with F/M chokes. the chokes will need to be opened up making the wall thivkness at the choke even less.
up until WW2 thay all pretty much had 2-9/16 chambers, you should count on a little work from a gunsmith to lengthen the chamber and forcing cone while you are at it which will help with the stocks craking.
Prior to aabout 1930 LC smith bored the 16 gas to .650 instead of .662 after that date. Not sure why they were so small but these guns usually have thicker wall thickness.
Most of the prewar seem to be choked F/F.
If you arre going to use it hard with modern sheels all LS smith 16s shoudl have the stock glassed to the reciever and reinforced. Best to do it before it cracks. Oil is the culrpit according to the experts. Most people dont know that it should be stored muzzle down.
Parkers, foxes, etc. all mentioned here are great guns, just do some research before you buy. They all had their little issues.
2-3/4 shells can be fired in a 2-9/16 chamber, if you hand load you can use spreders and low pressure loads. Or you can have the chambers and forcing cones lengthened, chokes reamed and treat it like a new gun but you will be out an additional $300 or more to do that.
So if you want a really good field gun and decide to buy used just keep in mind you shouldnt treat it like a new gun.
Again just do some research before buying or you will end up with more money in the gun that you will ever get out of it, or have a gun that you just dont shoot as much as you might want to.
I have a client i have taken hunting that has a 12 ga LC smith wild fowl gun that was shipped with 3" chambers. He had screw in chokes installed and the forcing cones lengthed. He hunts with steel shot every weekend of duck season for at least 6 years that i have known him with that gun. The shot cup and lengthed forcing chambers protect the bore and the hardened cscrew in chokes protect the choked end. He also uses IC and lighter constrictions ove decoys. I only mention this becasue at some point in time in the future we will all be shooting steel shot at everything. Might as well plan for it. |
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Posted:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:50 am
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Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2800
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa
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Gentlemen,
BobstheDog gives good info on the L.C. Smith, great guns for sure. I will add the following to it. The pre 1913 L.C. Smith Guns were some of the best double guns ever made. They were engineered for 2 1/2" shells, the modern 2 1/2 SpredR & RST shells shoot incredibly well out of them. Actually the 2/3/4 shells can be used in them also without any problems, because the guns were that well made.
I like the point BTD made about the Prior Owner, taking care of the gun. Very good point. Our Elsie guns have been passed down thru our family for generations, I have many one of a kind L.C. Smith double guns because of our families personal & business connections with the Hunter Arms company.
Although I have many other American & German Classic double guns, I have more L.C. Smith guns than any other kind. None have cracked stocks because they were cared for properly down thru the years, and used every year for bird hunting, mostly Grouse, Woodcock, Pheasant and Quail. Along with some very heavy line shooting, especially in my Great Grandfathers live Pigeon era of gunning, and again in my era shooting Clays at the Nemacolin Shooting Academy, when my sister in Law Barbra was the assistant MGR.
The L.C. Smith guns you see that have cracked stock were not cared for properly down thru the years, gun abuse causes problems no matter the manufacturer of the gun. Most people do not understand that hard wood cracking occurs in every manufacturers gun stocks, at a certain percentage, no matter the manufacturer or stock design. L.C. Smith made so many more guns than any other US Manufacturer, so naturally people see more cracked stocks on the Elsie guns, for this reason alone.
None of my pre 1913 L.C. Smith guns have ever needed any kind of glass bedding to keep the stocks from cracking. Correct care takes care of 99% of this problem.
If you happen to purchase an Elsie gun that has already been abused and small cracks are starting to form because the gun was over oiled and stored improperly, yes then by all means have the glass bedding done to help save the original stock.
The non graded L.C. Smith guns most people see, were the guns mostly purchased from a store front, and there were many thousands of these guns sold each year. Good guns to be sure.
If you purchase these American Classics make sure of the guns condition before you purchase, there are many of them that have been seriously abused by their prior owners, and will be costly to fix.
One other note, L.C. Smith Side Lock double guns seldom need repair work when cared for properly, down thru history. if work is required, a Master Gun Maker should be employed to do the job. The two Master Gun Makers I use for any work done on our families collection, are Rich Painter, in Economy, Pa and Freddie Brunner in Escondido, Ca.
If you would like to know more about the L.C. Smith Shotguns, Purchase Bill Brophy's L.C Smith Shotgun Books, along with John Houchins L.C. Smith The Legend Live's book. Further purchase the Double Gun Video - The L.C. Smith Side Lock Shotgun with Master Gun Maker Nick Makinson. A Great education on L.C. Shotguns where Nick actually takes the Elsie Gun apart, making a repair right on Camera, showing why it take a Master Gun Maker to really work on an L.C.Smith Shotgun correctly. I recommend this video highly. IMO few new guns are equal to the older American Classics.
If you like American Classic double guns, especially the L.C. Smith these books and video are a great education.
Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith America's Best - John Houchins
A one of a kind 1900 #4 L.C. Smith Shotgun, Special ordered with walkng Quail scenes on both Left & Right Side Locks, by a Texas Ranger for Hunting Quail on his ranch, he also carried it on his horse as he enforced Texas law, when the west was really wild.
A Treasured Family Possession.
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_________________ "L.C. Smith America's Best" - John Houchins
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers |
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Posted:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:49 pm
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Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 25
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Posted:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:21 am
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Member
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Joined: 06 Apr 2007
Posts: 3373
Location: The Great Northwet
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Smiths are classic American guns, but a real pain to work on. |
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The man's prayer from the Red Green Show: "I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to. I guess." |
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Posted:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:59 am
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Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2800
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa
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UDF,
Always use a Master Gun Maker to work on any L.C. Smith double gun, I use Rich Painter here in Pa and Freddie Brunner in Ca.
To remove all doubt pick up a copy of the Double Gun Video's The L.C. Smith SideLock Shotgun, with Master Gun Maker Nick Makinson. In the video Nick completely disassembles and Reassembles the L.C. Smith double gun, and makes an internal repair.
You will see 1st hand how working on a L.C. Smith double gun is done, and that the job takes a true Master Gun Maker to complete the job professionally.
Nick also relates a lot of great educational info in this video, and dispels a lot of misinformation about the L.C. Smith Shotguns.
A very well done professional video on the L.C. Smith Sidelock Shotgun. InFact the very best video on the gun that has ever been made.
Pine Creek/Dave |
_________________ "L.C. Smith America's Best" - John Houchins
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers |
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