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<  16ga. Guns  ~  Iím considering a 16 gauge flintlock fowler
Dannyboy175
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 6:48 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Mar 2013
Posts: 138
Location: York, PA

I recently bought a harken style flintlock rifle (mass produced) that can use for deer hunting, so the smooth bore Fowler wouldnít have to do double duty for deer. That said, the fowler Iím looking to have built would provide much more satisfaction because of the hand built quality and authentic traditional style. Iím also more of a bird hunter these days and would love to try my hand at taking a pheasant with the fowler.

Anyone own a flintlock fowler, now or in the past? Did you hunt or shoot clays with it?

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John Singer
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 7:29 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 03 Sep 2014
Posts: 161
Location: Sebewaing, MI

I had a 16 gauge flintlock several years ago. The lock time was so slow that it was impossible for me to hit game or clays with it.

With a round ball, hitting anything smaller than 2 ft in diameter at 50 yards was more a matter of luck than skill.

I sold it off and do not want another one.

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MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 4:48 am  Reply with quote
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Location: Minneapolis

Interesting idea, Dannnyboy. Flintlock fowlers had to work for someone at sometime in the past or they wouldn't have made them, so one should presume they can work now. I suppose one would have to get accustomed to staying on the target line after pulling the trigger, and waiting the extra tenths of a second for ignition to take place. I'm sure it would be unnerving at first for we shooters of modern stuff. I've never tried a flintlock, let alone wingshooting with one, but now that you mention it, I'd like to. Let us know how it all turns out, then bring that baby up to the Sweet 16 Shoot in South Saint Paul so we can all try it.

Cheers!
Tony
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Carlos
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 12:10 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 483
Location: Victoria BC Canada

I have a Pedersoli "Mortimer" flinter with two barrels. A .54 Cal rifle and a 12 gauge Fowler. The lock is is quite fast, being a re-creation of a late model Flint action. No hunting experience to speak of, 'though. Reloads are slow, but I have taught myself how to make paper cartridges.
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mart
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 12:13 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 38

Properly tuned flintlocks are not slow firing. Many of the mass produced flinters are not well set up and many shooters over prime the pan creating a fuse rather than a flash. I have one custom, left handed 32 caliber flintlock. It is as fast as any percussion I've ever fired.

Steve Zihn of Wyoming makes some beautiful flintlock rifles and fowlers. He's a true artist.
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Dannyboy175
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 12:35 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Mar 2013
Posts: 138
Location: York, PA

MaximumSmoke wrote:
Interesting idea, Dannnyboy. Flintlock fowlers had to work for someone at sometime in the past or they wouldn't have made them, so one should presume they can work now. I suppose one would have to get accustomed to staying on the target line after pulling the trigger, and waiting the extra tenths of a second for ignition to take place. I'm sure it would be unnerving at first for we shooters of modern stuff. I've never tried a flintlock, let alone wingshooting with one, but now that you mention it, I'd like to. Let us know how it all turns out, then bring that baby up to the Sweet 16 Shoot in South Saint Paul so we can all try it.

Cheers!
Tony


Follow through is honestly a problem for me in sporting clays. Maybe that means that I shouldn't consider a flintlock fowler or maybe it means shooting a flintlock fowler would potentially improve my follow through...

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Dannyboy175
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 12:40 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Mar 2013
Posts: 138
Location: York, PA

The guy I'm talking to is Michael Davis out of Missouri. I've not met him in person, but he's known for quality work. Below is a link to one of his fowlers. I would be wanting the same, except in left hand and 16 gauge.

http://davislongrifle.weebly.com/available-now.html

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duckdup
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 4:21 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Posts: 100
Location: West-central Missouri

I converted a Thompson Renegade to 20ga smoothie with a 28" barrel and lock swap. It worked well on bunnies. It eventually went to a friend as a gift.

A flintlock used on moving targets will either help you with your follow-through or your flinch.

Go easy on the priming charge; learn to make & use paper cartridges.

There were some good beginner articles in Muzzleloader magazine last two years.
Also some hunting/fowling stories in there too. If you are new to front stuffing, it would be worth hunting up those issues...

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Dannyboy175
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 4:45 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Mar 2013
Posts: 138
Location: York, PA

duckdup wrote:
I converted a Thompson Renegade to 20ga smoothie with a 28" barrel and lock swap. It worked well on bunnies. It eventually went to a friend as a gift.

A flintlock used on moving targets will either help you with your follow-through or your flinch.

Go easy on the priming charge; learn to make & use paper cartridges.

There were some good beginner articles in Muzzleloader magazine last two years.
Also some hunting/fowling stories in there too. If you are new to front stuffing, it would be worth hunting up those issues...


Thanks for the advice. Letís hope it increases the follow through and not the flinch.

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Carlos
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 6:23 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 483
Location: Victoria BC Canada

mart wrote:
Properly tuned flintlocks are not slow firing. Many of the mass produced flinters are not well set up and many shooters over prime the pan creating a fuse rather than a flash. I have one custom, left handed 32 caliber flintlock. It is as fast as any percussion I've ever fired.

Steve Zihn of Wyoming makes some beautiful flintlock rifles and fowlers. He's a true artist.


A well positioned and sharp flint is essential. Before dropping the powder I insert a pricker in the touch hole. After charging and ramming the projectile I remove the wire prick, mine is made from a short length of copper wiring hung from the triggerguard with a bit of artificial sinew. Then I charge the pan with 4Fg powder, no more than 2/3 full, then close the frizzen. Before firing I rap the lock with several good sharp knuckle raps to move the priming away from the touch hole. Doing this ritual has left me with no flashes-in-the-pan, and fast lock time.
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mart
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 6:33 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 38

Carlos wrote:
mart wrote:
Properly tuned flintlocks are not slow firing. Many of the mass produced flinters are not well set up and many shooters over prime the pan creating a fuse rather than a flash. I have one custom, left handed 32 caliber flintlock. It is as fast as any percussion I've ever fired.

Steve Zihn of Wyoming makes some beautiful flintlock rifles and fowlers. He's a true artist.


A well positioned and sharp flint is essential. Before dropping the powder I insert a pricker in the touch hole. After charging and ramming the projectile I remove the wire prick, mine is made from a short length of copper wiring hung from the triggerguard with a bit of artificial sinew. Then I charge the pan with 4Fg powder, no more than 2/3 full, then close the frizzen. Before firing I rap the lock with several good sharp knuckle raps to move the priming away from the touch hole. Doing this ritual has left me with no flashes-in-the-pan, and fast lock time.


I use a very similar system, though not quite as much priming powder. I also drill the touch hole out to 3/32" or 7/64".
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JNW
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 5:23 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Jun 2010
Posts: 1312
Location: Twin Cities, MN

A flintlock sounds like fun. After youíve got that figured out you can build a matchlock. Now that would be a challenge to wingshoot with!
Jeff
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Carlos
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:03 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 483
Location: Victoria BC Canada

Here is a repeat of a report I made a few years back on cascity.com. I have a dozen made up and will use them at our gunclub's Edwardian shoot at the end of June. A bit fiddly to make, but well worth it at the range.

"I tried two new x-spear-i-mints.

Cartridge, Shot, ML, 12 ga. Mark I*

Same as the mark I in my prior post, except that ;
- Made the tube on a tapered white board marker
- Squished a cushion wad so it would push down about 1 1/4 inch
- added a measure of shot
- fitted an overshot card over the shot
-`slit the remaining paper into six petals, fold and glue (Or glue & fold?)
- Lube the paper tube. This time I tried Lyman BP Gold
- Measure in the powder into the other end, fold.`

The difference was putting the overshot card inside the paper tube. I thought it would not be as likely to fall off. The trick is to get the tube just right. If it is too big around it won't slip in properly. It HAS to slip in freely, up to the overshot card, but not too thin or the overshot wad won't fit right. Again no problems, and it didn't slip forward when the other barrel was fired repeatedly.

Cartridge, Ball, ML 12 ga. Mark II

I got this idea from an article in The RIFLEMAN, about the CSA powder and ammunition article (last year, I think). The problem is that a paper wrapped ball is not likely to fit well enough for accuracy. The CSA used English cartridges that were different than the wrapped paper tube that I described above. It was a cardboard tube, with the bullet at one end, pointed towards the middle. The powder was on top, and sealed. to use, open the powder end, and pour. Then place the bullet end over the muzzle, and ram it down through the cartridge. Discard the cartridge, cap, level, and fire.

For my tube I used 12 ga. cartridge bodies, with the head and crimp cut off. Use paper, or the plastic shells made from tubing. (A-A's won't work, or any moulded shell like it).

- Ram a ball with a lubed patch down through the tube.
- Ram an overshot card, or one punched from paper milk carton, on top to keep the powder from the patch lube.
- Measure in the powder.
- Finally an overshot card to seal the top. I ran a piece of string under this card so it can be lifted out to free the powder.

To use; Lift out the top overshot (over powder?) wad, and dump the powder in the barrel. Place the tube over the muzzle and ram the patched ball through it, drive home and tamp. Cap, level, aim, and fire.

This one is really simple and easy to use. It doesn't seem to work with shot, as the shot column seems to press outward, making it impossible to ram, but for ball or minie bullet it's great. I tried both paper shot shell bodies, and plastic. Paper for smoothbore and tradegun matches, and plastic for game, and practise.

For a 12 ga., or any standard bore, use existing shotshell bodies. For ML Rifles? I just measured a piece of copper plumbing, and it came out to about .54. Maybe that will do for my .54 Mortimer Flinter? I'll have to figure out how to make durable tubes for other calibres."
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Dannyboy175
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 6:19 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Mar 2013
Posts: 138
Location: York, PA

Carlos wrote:
mart wrote:
Properly tuned flintlocks are not slow firing. Many of the mass produced flinters are not well set up and many shooters over prime the pan creating a fuse rather than a flash. I have one custom, left handed 32 caliber flintlock. It is as fast as any percussion I've ever fired.

Steve Zihn of Wyoming makes some beautiful flintlock rifles and fowlers. He's a true artist.


A well positioned and sharp flint is essential. Before dropping the powder I insert a pricker in the touch hole. After charging and ramming the projectile I remove the wire prick, mine is made from a short length of copper wiring hung from the triggerguard with a bit of artificial sinew. Then I charge the pan with 4Fg powder, no more than 2/3 full, then close the frizzen. Before firing I rap the lock with several good sharp knuckle raps to move the priming away from the touch hole. Doing this ritual has left me with no flashes-in-the-pan, and fast lock time.


Thanks for the info...

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Browning Citori Superlite Feather 16 ga.
Merkel 1620 (straight stock and single trigger)
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Dannyboy175
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 6:57 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Mar 2013
Posts: 138
Location: York, PA

The builder is saying that the barrel wonít be choked, but have a wide open parallel bore (I wasnít surprised). Is this the same as cylinder choke, or wider?

He said that he doesnít mess around with chokes but to learn to vary loads to techniques to pattern. Is this plausible, that I could achieve the equivalent of a modified choke through adjusting loads and other techniques?

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Browning Citori Superlite Feather 16 ga.
Merkel 1620 (straight stock and single trigger)
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