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mcrewz
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:49 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jun 2011
Posts: 118
Location: Illinois

So I ordered a bag of HW13 #6 a few days ago and it arrived in the mail. Its not to early to be loading duck shells is it? But I got it to my reloading room and when to do my usual tests. I like to compare each lot to my previous lot with pellet dia. and weight. I was very disappointed when I opened the bag. There were clearly two different types / sizes of shot in the bag. There were the usual HW13 #6 which averaged 2.3 grain per pellet and most were right at .110. Then there was another shot which were a dark dull matte gray measuring .095 to .100 and weighted .8 to 1.0 grains per pellet. I randomly measured out 437 gr and did a pellet count. I got 226 pellets to the oz. From my quick counting I am guessing about 20% of the pellets were the 7.5.

I called Bucks Run and to my surprise someone actually answered the phone. The gentleman was friendly said they had not run into that before. He told me they were nearing the bottom of the barrel on a batch and explained how if the pellets are heated longer they actually get smaller but denser. He went onto further explain more of the process and different batches have slightly different materials and they do what they can to keep costs down. He tried to tell me that the increased pellet count could work in my favor. I told him it wasn't the quality I had seen in the past and that it wasn't acceptable to me. A pellet weighting .8 of a grain isn't going to penetrate very deep not to mention trying to find that sucker in the meat. The man was polite and said they would take it back and send me a new bag that they would look over to ensure it was of good quality. I asked about them sending a return label. He said they weren't set up to do that, but they would send me extra shot to make up the added expense on my part. I guess Im still a little flustered after paying a fair amount and not receiving a quality product. I hope this isn't the standard of quality they have when ever they start to reach the end of a batch.

Mike
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Dave In AZ
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:27 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Oct 2015
Posts: 348

Mike, the last time they called me with a sale, I talked the same guy for 10 min or so and also expressed disappointment with the quality of their HW13#6 shot. I did volumetric density testing on three batches now and have gotten between 11.8 and 11.99 g/cc, this is not what I'm expecting when I purchase "13 g/cc density" shot. IMO, acceptable tolerance should always be BETTER than advertised, or the tolerance should be specified with the product.

He said they were completely unaware of this and had never heard it before... that's just poor quality control and business practices. If you order a giant batch of shot, and you DON'T take 2 minutes to density test the product you receive in and advertise at a certain specification, then you are absolutely negligent in my book.

I like the product and have used it a good bit, but I have decided that it is no longer worth $24/lb or so to me at less than 12g/cc. I can get very good bismuth shot for $15/lb from Rotometals at 9.62g/cc.

I also purchased 12 lbs of Federal HW15 #7 shot two nights ago, which toasty has tested out at 14.99 and 15.02 g/cc. Rogers has a sale on the Fed HW turkey shells, as they are clearancing them for their new TSS product. I bought a bunch of 10ga shells with 2oz loads. I'll disassemble the shells, keep the shot, and sell someone the nice brand new 10ga primed Fed hulls and wads, which will further reduce the price. But even tossing all that out, delivered to my door it's $23.98, better and cheaper than the RSI product.
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16GAwaterfowler
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:00 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 287
Location: missouri

Quote:
IMO, acceptable tolerance should always be BETTER than advertised, or the tolerance should be specified with the product.

Problem is Dave there are no industrial or legal specifications as to what any non toxic shot should be or consist of materials wise, there's only size guidelines of what size shot should be.
Not defending RSI as I've seen Tungsten, HW and Hevi shot vary so much from supplier to supplier, many times it's hard to tell what your going to get. You basically pay your money and hope it comes as advertised, reality is there's little to nothing you can do about it except return it and hope the supplier makes good on it.
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mcrewz
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:55 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jun 2011
Posts: 118
Location: Illinois

Dave I like that 10ga shell dissection idea. With federal heavyweight #7 you could load 3/4oz and still have roughly 166 pellets. My question is what powder would be best? It seems like STEEL, blue dot, and long shot would not make enough pressure to keep the load consistent, especially in the cold. Would something like green dot or universal clays be a better choice.

Mike
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Dave In AZ
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:05 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Oct 2015
Posts: 348

Derbyacresbob just got his Fed HW15 shells and dissected and weighed, all the pellets were correct size, round, and the shells had the advertised weight or more of shot in them. Federal always delivers in my experience, for what they advertise.
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rdja
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:25 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 02 Sep 2010
Posts: 829
Location: SW Ohio

Great information. Has anyone used the ITX 13 from Ballistic Products and what are their thoughts on that?
I see Ballistic also has Tungsten spheres, 15 gm/cc in # 7 for $30-37/pound.
Curious what they will charge for the 18gm/cc that is supposedly coming soon
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Dave In AZ
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:05 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Oct 2015
Posts: 348

ITX13 is also not really 13 g/cc, but I haven't tested it myself to see what it really is.

The sphero-tungsten that BPI has... pretty sure that is the Fed HW15 material. It may be excess that Fed is selling off to them, or it may be the original Fed supplier trying to find a new outlet now that Fed has terminated that line and replaced with TSS.

Someone reputable, maybe it was Toasty? got some and compared it and said they thought it was the same. In any case, it appears to be good stuff of decent quality. I was going to buy some of that as a good deal with their current sale, but dissecting the Fed HW shells is even better right now.
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duckdup
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:17 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Posts: 258
Location: West-central Missouri

ITX 13 in 5's (no longer on BPI site) worked fine for me and averaged just about 12.9 based on pellet count vs. weight. Made a good, late-season duck load in 3-inch 12ga. Used a BPI load.

I bought the 15 X 7 with the intent to make a light, fast, turkey load in 16. Didn't get around to it so can't tell you more than the little, itty-bitty, teeny-tiny jar for $30+ makes me think I may never buy the mega $$$$ stuff again...

--D

_________________
An ounce of fives, the smell of nitro in paper hulls, wet gundog, and Hoppe's #9...
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16GAwaterfowler
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:22 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 287
Location: missouri

mcrewz wrote:
Dave I like that 10ga shell dissection idea. With federal heavyweight #7 you could load 3/4oz and still have roughly 166 pellets. My question is what powder would be best? It seems like STEEL, blue dot, and long shot would not make enough pressure to keep the load consistent, especially in the cold. Would something like green dot or universal clays be a better choice.

Mike

Blue Dot will work fine if you use 7/8 oz and a magnum primer such as the CCI 209M. Use 26 -27 gr BD, 7/8 oz, VP80 wad in the Federal hull.
You mileage may vary if you use European hulls and primers.
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MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:18 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1550
Location: Minnesota and Florida

If I recall correctly, I was disappointed to find the ITX-13 I bought was about 11 g/cc. I also bought ITX-10, and found it was indeed 10 g/cc and softer of course. Why would I pay about 50% more per pound for a 1 g/cc difference and harder-than-my-barrel shot to boot? Not buying ITX-13 again, and ITX-10 is about the same density as bismuth shot, so why is even that a bargain at $22 per pound.
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mcrewz
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:03 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jun 2011
Posts: 118
Location: Illinois

Bucks Run made it right. I mail the shot with mixed 7.5s back to them and they sent me a bag with shot that was much more uniform. Several 10 pellet samples averaged 2.3 grains. They also sent an extra pound of shot to cover my inconvenience and return shipping cost.

Mike
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Ramunaex
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:51 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2018
Posts: 2

It is another issue that can be raised for future use.
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