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<  16ga. Ammunition & Reloading  ~  Cheddites stick in chamber, fail to extract, fet, any help?
Dogchaser37
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:04 am  Reply with quote
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Location: Central CT

casebro,

Let's slow down and think about what I am telling you.

I know you don't believe this but I am trying to shorten the learning curve. Cheddite hulls have been around a long time. BPI has been importing them for 15 - 20 years. Many of us have been very successful with them. I personally have used them for every thing from 3/4 oz. loads at 1,300 FPS, 7/8 oz. loads (tested velocities over 1400 FPS), 1 & 1 1/8 oz. loads from 1,250 to 1,300 FPS and some 1 1/4 oz. loads in the 1,250 FPS range. I have also used them with buffered Bismuth loads.

I am not the only person who has been successful using 16 ga. Cheddite hulls. I use them in shotguns with 4 different action types. My son uses them in an A5, Model 37 and a Citori. I use an 1100 for most of my shooting.

There are many companies that use Cheddite hulls in their new ammuntion, one being Herter's that sells their ammo through Cabela's, probably for the last 5 years or so.

Many of us have used this ammo or the hulls or both with absolutely no problems.

Cheddite is a very old company, very successful and very large, they didn't get that way because their hulls don't feed correctly.

So let's get away from this is a cheddite hull problem. BUT........

If I can't convince you that it is not a hull problem. Why keep beating a dead horse? Why not go and buy some Remington or Federal 16 gauge ammo and be done with the Cheddite hulls? Do not buy Winchester or Herters ammo because those are Cheddite hulls.

You are also concerned about the steel metal heads on hulls........every hull that we have for the 16 gauge uses a steel head. As a matter of fact there are very few hulls in the world made with brass heads. The only brass metal head hulls are all premium target load hulls made by Remington and Winchester. (There are also some all brass hulls with no plastic at all) ......but in reality 95% of the shotshell hulls being made, in any gauge, have steel metal heads with a ribbed extruded plastic tube with a separate plastic basewad.

In other words you don't have a whole lot of choices when it comes to hulls. That is OK, at least it hasn't been much of a problem.

If you really want to shorten the learning curve, consider what I have just offered.

My apologies for getting short with you in previous posts.

Regardless of what you decide to do, I sincerely wish you the best.

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casebro
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:26 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 31 Jan 2013
Posts: 152
Location: San Diego

Criticize my learning method of you want. I do reinvent the wheel an awful lot, but I gain more in depth knowledge too. And don't forget, that most common advise was to use better hulls. And other shooters have these probs to, in different types of actions. Maybe this will help them out.

Some things I've learned, In no particular order:

Teflon is a fantastic lube. Dry powder on the charge bar makes it slide like a skater on ice. Put some on the o-rings too. And the platen where it slides up and down on the steel rods. And inside of pumps/autos where things slide. It's the only magic snake oil that I'm sold on.

You can make a new shell lifter for your Supersizer. Make it larger diameter to suit the hull, rather than the 20 gauge size that Mec sells for 12-16-20. It will support the rim better. Also make the flange thicker, so it reforms the front surface of the rim, including sharpening the inside radius. You cn't just use a square edged ring sizer- withoiut the inner radius it will crumple the metal.

SxS guns use a linkage system to activate the extractor. That barrel set makes for a big lever. No wonder some guys have no extraction problem.

Slower powder makes for lower pressure at the same velocity. Lower pressure means less 'brass' expansion to make things stick in chambers.

M12 Winny extractors need to be hand fit to the bolt. Round off the inner square corners. Also round off the end of the plunger- not too much, the shoulder retains the extractor in the bolt. But pushing at the center point rather than the bottom corner give much more spring pressure to grip the rim. It can grip it so tight that after 'sticking' an un-sized hull out of my SxS, you can pull on the slide with both hands and the extractor stays hooked.

Steel rims thickness varies between brands. .005" in Chedds and Fiocchi, to .012 in Feds.

Now, why don't I get email notifications form this site? My settings are correct. And when I hit 'pot' this, it will give mean error message. Maybe my message extractor needs hand fitting?

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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:12 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
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This new fangled wheel...intriguing. Have any pictures? Actually I believe what you need to reinvent is either the Model 12 or the Cheddite hull.

At any rate, all jesting aside, let us know if you ever come up with scientific proof of whatever the actual problem turns out to be...and just as importantly, how to solve it. It could be something as bizarre as chamber taper. Good luck on your journey.

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casebro
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:11 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 31 Jan 2013
Posts: 152
Location: San Diego

WyoChukar wrote:
This new fangled wheel...intriguing. Have any pictures? Actually I believe what you need to reinvent is either the Model 12 or the Cheddite hull.

At any rate, all jesting aside, let us know if you ever come up with scientific proof of whatever the actual problem turns out to be...and just as importantly, how to solve it. It could be something as bizarre as chamber taper. Good luck on your journey.


Oh, I thought it was plain:

Radiusing the inner corners of the new extractor allowed it to move inwards farther. Making the extractor plunger pointier moved it's point of pressure against the extractor further out, where the spring pressure will push the front inwards against the rim. Which made the extractor hold on tight. At least for a Fiocchi that was jammed in so hard, the extractor hung on well as it took two hands on the slide to pull it out. Unless you don't think it is scientific enough unless it works on a cheddite? The Fiocchis were sticking just as bad.

So, a gun problem, but not specific to my gun, other M12s here have the same prob. I learned, and told them how to fix it. ( did your snark add anything ?) If I had taken it to a gun plumber, it would still be sitting in his back room awaiting arrival of his round tuit. Then it would wait for the parts he ordered. Last time I had a M12 in, I had to tell him how it worked. And some of the guys at the gun club tell me to "buy a new gun". Then, when they take their own advise, their new gun has to go back in under warrantee, round tuit all over again.

So, I am ahead of the game, and so are the members here.

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byrdog
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:31 am  Reply with quote
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sounds like used prunes

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casebro
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:08 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 31 Jan 2013
Posts: 152
Location: San Diego

byrdog wrote:
sounds like used prunes


At my local gun club we call that a "Blooper". Noise, but no payload.

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casebro
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:06 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 31 Jan 2013
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Location: San Diego

3,069 views in a month. For being a load of used prunes, there sure are a lot of people interested in what I have to say.

If prunes will help me eject my Cheddites, I'll have to change my breakfast menu. Changing powder has already cut back on the bloopers. I've heard that some reloaders have good luck by adding fillers, so maybe so?

Do you think that kind of 'regularity' will help me be more 'consistent' at the trap range? Maybe it will help me shatter my score?

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Dying with all ten fingers is like dying with money in the bank- you could have had more fun!
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Dogchaser37
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:25 am  Reply with quote
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In reality, I believe you will find that this thread has more entertainment value than reloading educational value.

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oldhunter
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:24 am  Reply with quote
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Isn't that the truth!

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fn16ga
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:09 am  Reply with quote
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Boy I miss 16ga GG Laughing
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Dogchaser37
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:39 am  Reply with quote
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Where is old GG anyway?

We had our dust ups, but........hope he is well.

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casebro
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:32 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 31 Jan 2013
Posts: 152
Location: San Diego

Two rounds of Trap, perfect extraction for all 50.

The claw did stay gripped, but a couple extractions were 'crisp'. So I don't think I'll load them any hotter. I guess this load is south of 10,000 psi.

Speaking of heat, I 'chicken wing' the butt stock, then eject and catch the hull in my right hand. The hulls are still hot, and boy, are them cheapies soft.

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Dying with all ten fingers is like dying with money in the bank- you could have had more fun!
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fn16ga
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:37 am  Reply with quote
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Dogchaser37 wrote:
Where is old GG anyway?

hope he is well.


+1
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double vision
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:27 am  Reply with quote
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Be careful of what you wish for! Wink

I hope he's OK too. Sorta miss the old pain in the ... Laughing
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MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:03 am  Reply with quote
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DC Says: "In reality, I believe you will find that this thread has more entertainment value than reloading educational value." No more true words have ever been spoken. We've been exposed to several new exercises in logic. A whole new threshold of amazement has been acheived, evidenced by those "3,069 views in a month". It's a tragicomical trainwreck, but we just can't look away. We should have long ago.

We've seen those responding to the original post, despite earnest intentions, accused of "closing ranks, rather than supporting some learning", simply because they presented their logic, experiences and observations. That one really takes the cake.

The OP is on his own mission and needs no help in solving problems he perceives. He is simply seeking agreement with, and adulation for, his ideas. This is the crux of narcissism, and there is no fix for that.
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