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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:43 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Uncle Dan Fan,

Here in Pa we have real decent game management, in our State forests and State Game Lands. Our Forest management has to fight the liberal tree huggers in court, however it is getting better. Our forest management is a political mess in some area's of the state. In others areas it is working quite well.

Pine Creek/Dave
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Last edited by Pine Creek/Dave on Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:48 am; edited 1 time in total

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Griffon
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:49 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Apr 2014
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Location: Maine

In Maine the the most invasive non native specie along the coast are the people from Mass migrating north. Tend to come into a area and attempt to takeover the countryside. Eradication can be difficult.

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nwmac
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:38 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Apr 2015
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We have the same problem with Californians Shocked
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Cheyenne08
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:57 pm  Reply with quote
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Griffon wrote:
In Maine the the most invasive non native specie along the coast are the people from Mass migrating north. Tend to come into a area and attempt to takeover the countryside. Eradication can be difficult.


+1, here in Wyoming it is the Colorado invasion, they get chased out by the Texans invading their Southern border, so they migrate North to escape them! Wink

Dale

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tramroad28
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:45 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 625
Location: Ohio..where ruffed grouse were

In Maine, I suspect the northern pike is fun to catch and makes pike fisherman happy....still, I believe it is an invasive in some or all Maine waters and can do harm to native fish species...game fish species included.
Maybe, I am wrong on it’s classification. Question

Drawing a line of concern or acceptance at pleasure to a hunter or fisherman or, at “it’s better than hunting nuttin’” seems .....all too popular today.
The point tho should be..tomorrow and dem grandkids’s own image and place in the world when considering invasives of all manner.
Habits can be a good thing with considerations.
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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:37 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2124
Location: Hudson,Wy

As for the future, I find it to be a shame if future generations don't get to experience the variety we have enjoyed for the past 70 years. Someone mentioned monoculture earlier; turning outdoor experiences into one would also be a shame. How do we teach youth to respect wild things while picking and choosing which ones get to exist?

Pike? There are lakes that host true trophy class pike and trout together in Colorado (for now, but pike may get the ax) and have for decades. Other examples of pike coexisting or even being a valuable management tool can be found in the upper midwest. Like I said earlier, "one size fits all" mentalities seldom work out for the better.

Invasives? Well, it seems that the label/ classification is being used haphazardly rather than cautiously. I fear there is more to lose than to gain. I wonder what a guy like Ben O. Williams would have done with his life if Hungarian partridges had been labeled invasive 30 years ago? I also wonder what Roosevelt and Leopold would have thought in our shoes. I fear men who are given both the authority and resources to decide these things and then implement the changes for us. I also have trust issues in light of what history has taught me.

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tramroad28
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:36 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 625
Location: Ohio..where ruffed grouse were

Maine was mentioned, only in humor it appeared, but I noted that area and many other areas have large and growing issues with invasives...of many descriptions.
Ignore or deflect as necessary.

Sadly, the invasive issue is not just one of WY or WY hunters or even cheat grass....and as such WY folks do not get to define the issue....in cause, effect or benefit.
Nor is it of any benefit to limit a look at the problem for it’s shiny spots of better days.

It and others afield are complex issues, in problem and in benefits....have so been over Time.
Addressing all from a hunter or fisherman point of view tho appears short-sighted.....that view can work locally but it can also downgrade problems or raise a need to accept what has occurred which signals more profound change afield than empty tailgates.

There is another more subtle issue with a hunter-focused view being trumpeted and that is in bringing in new and needed hands to help many slides afield. One being, managment of eastern NFs. I have witnessed that narrow hunter focus at NF round table meetings and saw that focus on ME & MINE turn off needed hands to help....some easily open minds to add a voice and others that take a bunch of convincing.

Granted, the eastern forest issues no more define than does cheatgrass concerns and yes, this is a very pointed message board with ready high-fives but attitude spreads...and if we are to actually help our grandkids beyond tailgates then we need the realization that hunter is not only where it is at...simply too small a group, even with P-R funds and the rest.
Hunters are vital, so, so true...but, Hunters or fisherman are not IT....same with birdwatchers or college kid treehuggers or old Preservationists or deer hunters or whatever.

As to Leopold.....a study of the man and his own changes over Time from a “fierce green fire” and more illustrated a man who saw, thought and considered beyond himself.
Do not wish too much re men such as Leopold....you might not like what you receive.

It is good to soon be touching my 70s....as it is tiring seeing evermore evidence of ME & Mine rationalizing away problems and problems existing well beyond individual backyards.
The luxury of a narrow look is costly.
I reckon....pay that bill and have a safe and shiny season is about all one is left to say.
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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:43 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
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Location: Hudson,Wy

My view is nowhere near as narrow as you might perceive. I see all "small groups", hunters and fisherman included, swept under the rug, ran over ram shackle, and dismissed as insignificant today in the name of either what some expert thinks or as irrelevant to society on the whole. We are headed for a day and age where traditions, lifestyles, and heritages are completely lost. A good example from the past is how the native indian nations have changed. I live along side Shoshone and Arapaho tribes. It is very hard to find anyone who remembers their native languages and even harder to find a young member who cares. The heritage is fading. We are bowing out and letting the tide of progress slowly but surely sweep us away as well.

I'm not sure where it ends, but it is distressing. I do know this much from observation, that as we continue finding ways to divide ourselves, our base erodes. I quit hunting big game long ago, but will lend support to the big game hunters as much as to the grouse men and pheasant chasers because all of us matter. If that is an egocentric view, then guilty I stand.

This brings up the question, how then is trading a non-native organism in favor of a native one, not a narrow view? The truth? Unless we reverse farming practices and societal trends from the past century, we can never restore the original ecosystem that some of these managers are shooting for. The horse is out of the barn and can't be put back, so we need to find the best use for that horse. Remember, deer and turkeys were not common at one time and they would qualify as semi-native invasive. Answers are never as easy and simple as they seem.


Last edited by WyoChukar on Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:02 am; edited 1 time in total

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tramroad28
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:59 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 625
Location: Ohio..where ruffed grouse were

“Our” base is not as important as having a stronger, wider and growing base from which to battle change and poor decisions of many types.

I do believe that sport hunting(other than deer and turkey..mebbe waterfowl) is sadly not going in a positive direction....many reasons for that trend and is precisely why we need that larger base.
WE can not positively affect the many, many problems afield alone...even if undivided.
Simply not in the cards.

No doubt native americans have many issues, hurdles and threats to their traditions and values.
They have a much longer tradition than does sport hunting.....hunting for sport and not survival is a quite recent activity, comparably.
Comparing sport hunting lifestyles to native american cultural changes is a mite of a stretch....to me.

Most of us belong to habitat groups, game groups, activity groups apart from our own interests or locales.....as being aware is important. It is one sound step to thinking wider than ourselves.
Hopefully, belonging is never an end game to thinking and considering.
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Cheyenne08
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:20 pm  Reply with quote
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This thread has gone way overboard. The woes or desires of individuals is not going to be settled on this site.

Please let it rest.

Dale

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skeettx
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:24 pm  Reply with quote
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Dale
OK
Thanks
Mike


Last edited by skeettx on Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:44 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
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Location: Hudson,Wy

The actual loss of cherished traditions was the theme when I mentioned my tribal neighbors; no intent to imply that the traditions are the same.

Not trying to stir the pot or go overboard Dale, the whole idea behind this was to get people to ponder things that are often taken for granted until it's too late. Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers.

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skeettx
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:53 pm  Reply with quote
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Yes, you did well
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:22 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
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Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Gentlemen,

Got to adit the comment about Invasive Species being Mass people is right on the money, California people also. Liberal nut cases are more than half the problem they lead to insane liberal politicians! Yes they are an Invasive Species for sure.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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Griffon
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:37 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Apr 2014
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Location: Maine

As Nancy Pelosi would say "Lets join hands and sing this land is your land"

Tears as big as horse turds Dale...

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