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Chequamegon
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:41 am  Reply with quote
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Hi All,

I have decided I need a 16 gauge SxS for the grouse woods and figure this is the place to come for help. I don't know much about SxS shotguns and have had a difficult time researching what I should be looking for. I would like to keep the budget to around $1500 and would be able to do this with a new FAIR Iside. This shotgun is pretty much set up how I would want with the straight English stock and the weight seems about right.

Has there been consensus regarding if these shotguns are a good value? I've seen a few things written including on this site. Would I be better served looking for a used shotgun at this price? If so could you recommend what I should be looking for? There are so many SxS makers that I have never heard of so the used market is very intimidating to me.

Thanks for all help.
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skeettx
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:10 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 7854
Location: Amarillo, Texas

Hello Chequamegon
WELCOME on your first posting Smile

Just remember, what ever 16 gauge gun you buy will lead you to
buy more and more of them !!

Mike

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Byron Whitlock
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:50 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 27 Jan 2016
Posts: 259
Location: Oswego, Kansas

Welcome to the site Chequamegin. I love my SXS guns and will be buying more after selling off a couple other guns. I recommend that you look for used guns as you can get some good values there. I love my LC Smith that I bought on gunbroker and it had become my favorite shotgun. You find them often on used gun sites and for lass than $1500. I paid $800 for mine and see them often in that price range.
A featherweight model of any is a perfect gun for carrying hunting the fields and woods.
There are other good guns available but we all find a gun that we think is perfect so we encourage others to try them. Wink

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Win Model 12
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Hootch
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:04 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1331
Location: Eagle, Nebraska

Merkel 40e in 16ga, but believe it is a myth along with Bigfoot and Loch Ness Monster
I recently bought a Rizzini, I like it so far
LC Smiths, Foxes, Parkers, all good.
Be warned, it is an addiction and this site is just packed with enablers
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Dave Erickson
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:15 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 06 Nov 2009
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Location: West Coast of WI

I recently ordered an Iside from John Boyd at Quality Arms. I wish I could tell you more, but I wonít see mine for a while.
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Cold Iron
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:26 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Mar 2016
Posts: 285
Location: Mn.

SxS guns are no different than other guns in that they need to fit you. If you watch SxS shooters they often are selling and trading their guns to find the one that DOES fit them. Many do not. In the early 70's if someone showed up to hunt grouse with a SxS odds were they couldn't hit much with it and you felt sorry for them. About 25 or so years they became all the rage. There are exceptions and many on here would be included in that exceptions list.

I went to one of the Flatwater shoots several years back and showed up with my custom 9 lb. Joel Etchen target gun, in 12 ga. no less. At one station someone took it out of my hands and handed me a SxS. And the rest of the squad did the same, as did the other squads that came by. Didn't miss a bird although they were very easy presentations and said as much when it was done. Someone laughed and said that is because they weren't American SxS guns but European guns with more modern dimensions. Still not convinced.

Last fall had the privilege of meeting canvasback while grouse hunting. Turns out he is my long lost brother from a parallel universe. However he is very much into SxS guns and talked at length about them, couldn't talk enough about them to be honest. So this year decided to try them again.

Shot several fairly expensive ones including several of German origin and didn't really do much for me. Then at the Sweet 16 shoot in South St. Paul shot a FAIR Iside on several stations and only missed 2 birds. Both times using sustained lead and having all that metal hanging out there messed me up visually. Something that can be overcome. LOP was a bit long but that can be easily enough addressed. Thought found my first SxS. However ended up shooting a friends Winchester 23 with 28" bbl. also this summer and it was even better. But it is a 20 ga. and I use 16 for grouse, and it weighs over 7 lbs. Great for targets, but to me not a grouse gun. A Winchester 23 will be my first SxS at the age of 60 but only for clays.

If I was in the market for a SxS grouse gun the FAIR Iside would be my first choice. But that is me and they fit me. I have 2 FAIR guns and they are in the proper configuration with bbls. stacked one over top of the other. They are great guns. I also have 2 B. Rizzini guns, several Beretta's and of course many others. I would put the FAIR guns up there with any of them.

As long as it fits you I don't feel you could go wrong the Iside.

Good luck in your search take your time and if at all possible shoot one first.
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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:00 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 1121
Location: Hudson,Wy

The Win 23 in 20 ga weighed 7 lbs.? Wow, I have one and it's barely over 6 lbs.

Anyhow, F.A.I.R guns are pretty good. Of course, like you mentioned, used is an option too. I have SxS 16's by L.C. Smith, Fox, Lefever, and Ithaca now. I really like them. I paid well under $1500 for each one. The Fox and Lefever fit me as issued. The Smith was a non factor because it needed a new stock. The Ithaca N.I.D was so close to a perfect fit that when I removed wood from the comb to make it fit, I only used a foam sanding block and 40 grit paper. Yesterday I converted that gun to english grip. I hope to have my finish coats and checkering completed by this weekend.

I read a lot about modern stock dimensions, but never have liked them. I always seem to be looking over the top of the gun; the gun points far too high. My "modern" guns received some serious wood alterations. I think a lot of it is how an individual learns to mount the gun. I am convinced that there are cheek mashers and those of us who like the comb to just slip in place gently. Both methods work. You may find like I did, that classic dimensions fit better, or you may absolutely hate them. Try a couple if you can. When you find one that comes up natural and lines up perfectly with your eye, measure it and write those numbers down for future reference.

From top to bottom: Lefever DS, Fox Sterlingworth, and Ithaca N.I.D.
[[URL=http://www.jpgbox.com/page/53732_1024x683/] [/URL]][/img]

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byrdog
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:12 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 22 Aug 2011
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Location: the Moosehorn

I have two Dickinson SxS guns that I love because I can hit the target over and over with them. My eye sight is very poor so I need a gun that fits so well I can score without seeing the target to well. I have a lot of guns and I could use any sort or type I choose but these have really impressed me.
I have seen used Dickinsons for sale within your budget. but new guns are only about $1700.

Here is a pretty one


https://www.gunbroker.com/item/786093826

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UncleDanFan
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:06 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 06 Apr 2007
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Whatever you do, don't get one with those hammer thingy's sticking out the top, or those little squiggly lines on the barrels. They are completely worthless. If you find one, just send it to me and I'll dispose of it properly.

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Great Odin's Raven! Is that a 16?
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jswanson
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:59 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 748
Location: Adirondak Mtns

Well just to give you and Idea of where this can lead, I started with a FOX sterlingworth, acquired a LC fw, then a lefever H Grade, then a rainy day fox sterlingworth, then a sweet 16 (1954) moved on to a Model of 1912. When I say moved on don't for a minute think anything left. My safe has a big sign on it it says ONE WAY. I'm looking for a good NID and could use a rainy day Lefever too and maybe another LC. All 16's of course.

You never know where your next treasure is going to show up or what it going to be. Except its being a 16 is a given.

Joe

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Interested in older US made SxS and upland hunting. New to reloading shot shells and looking for info and advice.
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canvasback
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:53 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 527
Location: Ontario

Brother Cold Iron, was I THAT boring? Very Happy

I usually blather on, secure in the knowledge no one is paying the slightest attention. But in truth, Iím pleased my SxS evangelicalism may have had some impact. Keep looking, is what I would say. Keep trying them out. WyoChukarís experience mirrors many others. Start with one and soon they multiply.

There is a lot of talk out there about the ďunusableĒ dimensions of vintage American guns. But the more I talk to different people, the more often I run across shooters who like a sizeable DAH. Some of us are somewhat adaptable. Iím slowly working towards getting most of my keepers having similar dimensions. The operative word is slowly. LOL

To the OP, if I was in the market for a first SXS there is no way I would buy new. Save that for once you have really fallen in love with rhem and know exactly what you want and need. In the meantime, the market is overflowing with great quality guns in great condition and bargain prices. You just have to spend time searching.

Edit to add.....in particular I would encourage the OP to look at some of the better quality names from Belgium. They can be very well made guns, with very reasonable dimnesions for not much money. I paid $900 for this gun with a 14" LOP (I replaced the pad and had the stock redone) and DAH of 2 1/2". It's a 16 gauge Pieper.

[/URL]

I also just took delivery last week of a nice Fox A grade in 16 gauge for $1700.

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Fox Sterlingworth 16
2 x Pieper Boxlock 16
Heym Boxlock 16
Citori 16
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canvasback
PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:42 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 527
Location: Ontario

And further to my previous post.....

Here is that Pieper's twin, only in field grade. I got it for $575 and they are just four serial numbers apart. Both on the factory floor together 100 years ago.

[/URL]

My smith currently is working on a Defourny for me.....stock refinish and glass bed.... that he thinks is one of the nicest handling guns he's ever picked up and with beautifully finished internals and fantastic wood. That one was valued at about $1200.

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"The world cries out for such:he is needed, & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia"

Fox Sterlingworth 16
2 x Pieper Boxlock 16
Heym Boxlock 16
Citori 16
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Two Pipe Shoot
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:42 am  Reply with quote
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If you are going to walk long miles behind a dog in the grouse woods and brambles, look for something close to 6 lbs., concentrate on shooting no more than one oz. of shot, and make sure that your focus is on the bird and not the barrels; some folks get flustered when they attempt to aim a sxs vs point it because the visual picture is different. A hard focus on the bird letís the brain tell the hands how to move the gun. Learn that and practice it and you can hit anything with a gun that fits you.

Reno

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fourtrax
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:39 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 748
Location: N. Shore, mn

Two Pipe Shoot wrote:
If you are going to walk long miles behind a dog in the grouse woods and brambles, look for something close to 6 lbs., concentrate on shooting no more than one oz. of shot, and make sure that your focus is on the bird and not the barrels; some folks get flustered when they attempt to aim a sxs vs point it because the visual picture is different. A hard focus on the bird letís the brain tell the hands how to move the gun. Learn that and practice it and you can hit anything with a gun that fits you.

Reno



Words more true never spoken. ++1

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mike campbell
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:03 pm  Reply with quote
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I suggest you don't do so much "homework" that others' opinions unduly prejudice your choice. Straightgrip versus semipistol, two triggers versus one, splinter forearms versus semi-beavertails, 6 lb "magic-wands" versus obedient 7 lbers, etc. etc.

What looks nice on the wall, makes others drool and "carries like a dream" won't always serve you best in the woods and fields.....especially the ultralights. If you can't manage an extra 1/2 lb during a few hours afield (be realistic), I suggest you buy some lighter boots.....you'll save a ton of work compared to sacrificing valuable weight in your gun.

Good luck and enjoy the journey.

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