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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:24 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

PP,

Unfortunately in most places in our state governments, especially in Pa politics is the worst enemy of professional forest management.

Bill Palmer our learned Pa Grouse Biologist fought this for many many years, advising the cutting of the SGL and SFL at the proper times, for forest regeneration. However the politicians were influenced by many liberal nut case groups who did not want the forest cut, and Pa is now in trouble with it's over all Grouse population. Only in areas like Potter county where logging goes on all the time, do we have a good Grouse population.

The PGC is now trying to blame the shrinking Pa Grouse population on WNV, which in reality is not true over all, it may have a slight influence, which has not been scientifically proven a this point. They even eliminated the best part of Grouse season for the Pa Grouse hunters, to supposedly help the Grouse population. Over all this is a fallacy also.

We do have good Grouse and Woodcock Biologist in the PGC unfortunately the politicians are not listening to them, men like Eric Miller are being ignored instead of being put in charge of our forest management, to help our Pa wild life. A real shame the knowledge and talent are already working for the PGC, however liberal Politicians want things done to suit their own agenda, a real shame for the Pa sportsman who actually pay the bills of the PGC.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man


For those looking for a little true knowledge on Grouse hunting, habitat and forests
Dennis Walrod has a good book out which covers a lot of questions.

[URL=http://www.jpgbox.com/page/55454_800x600/] [/URL]

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pudelpointer
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:49 am  Reply with quote
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Posts: 1007
Location: Lancaster county, Pa

I have worked with Eric on a couple RGS projects he is making an impact. The Ruffed Grouse Society is lobbing and educating the public the tide is turning. We are working with PA game commission and State foresters we have put a lot of habitat down in the last 5 years. People and groups are starting to understand the need for diverse habitats and early successional forest are part of that. Non hunters and other groups are supporting the effort. PA goals are 10-15% that's not enough but a good start. It's not all doom and gloom just have to stay active, participate and support the conservation organizations. Even in NY state around my property Audubon and the NRCS are pushing early successional habitat. The West Nile thing is scarier than you think. What makes it bad is the isolated weak populations in area's of the state. I agree where there is great habitat and good populations they will over come and be fine. Some real interesting studies with west Nile and the mosquito's opposition to elevation. Lisa Williams has been focusing habitat project above a certain elevation where the mosquitos are not found. Support RGS educate people on the need for Early successional Habitat and spread the word.
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:05 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

PP,

I have my doubts about the tide turning, however Eric Miller and others in the PGC are doing the best they can inside the political climate that exists here in Pa.

If the PGC would give Eric the lead and follow his professional guidance, here in Pa we would actually have a chance to return our state to the incredible Grouse population we once had. Eric's knowledge of forest management, for over all wildlife is top shelf, Lisa needs to listen and learn from Eric Miller, not continue the agenda of the politicians inside the PGC.

We do have an outside chance right now to restore our once incredible Grouse habitat and population, here in Pa. However I am seeing very little effort to make it happen. Bill Palmer was absolutely correct, harvest more forest and open Grouse season clear into February.

Having been in the Pa woods for over 50 years now, I have witnessed first hand the major problem of poor forest management, especially below Rt 80. The eastern part of our state is a night mare due to the liberal nut case influence leading to very poor forest management for all different kinds of wild life, and it has shown very little improvement even recently.

Here in Potter/Tioga it's different, Eric worked with the State Forester and we had some major changes taking place, where cutting needed to be done. The Grouse, Deer, Turkey and Bear populations in those areas are way up again because of proper forest management.

To our family our Pa mountains and proper forest management mean everything. Our sports are Fly Fishing for Trout and different kinds of hunting. We have a reverence for our mountains that most people who live in the big towns and cities do not have. When we see good professional people like Eric Miller working for the PGC we welcome them with open arms, the PGC definitely needs more of them.

It's snowed here in the back woods last night, the forest is a winter wonderland right now, the Grouse and Woodcock are calling me, have a good day.

God's Speed Gentlemen,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith/F.E. Thomas Man

My buddy Ken Graft with his big Potter County Grouse. Few people ever get to see a Grouse this size, Ken actually shot one and had it mounted for display in his Shooting Star Gun Shop.

[URL=http://www.jpgbox.com/page/55466_800x600/] [/URL]

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Larry Brown
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:24 am  Reply with quote
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I've been away from this BB for awhile. Came back to delete an old post about a gun I had for sale and found this topic. Here's my take:

My first experience hunting ruffed grouse (and woodcock) was in NE IA, 1973. Killed some woodcock that first season; my first ruffed grouse the next season. As the song goes . . . "Those were the days, my friend!" I never hunted grouse anywhere except Iowa until 1983. How good was it back then? Well, my old hunting notes tell the story. Hunting dogless, all on public land, with 3 friends opening weekend 1980: We moved 39 grouse for 62 flushes in 10 hours. These days, I'd be pretty happy with that just about anywhere in the country.

But from there on, it was downhill. We established the state's only RGS Chapter in the 90's, by which time the birds were already in serious decline. Aging habitat and very little cutting on public or private land. Where there was logging, it was nearly all selective cutting. No clearcutting.

I killed my last 2 Iowa grouse on public land along the Volga River near Fayette in 1998. By that time, I was making an annual trip to the UP and decided to leave the few remaining Iowa birds alone. Turned out to be mostly academic anyhow. I still hunted woodcock in that part of the state a couple of times a season before the pheasant opener. Sometimes did quite well on doodles. Had a red letter day my last Iowa woodcock hunt of the year, the last year the daily bag limit was 5. Went 5/5. Can't recall encountering any more than 2 or 3 grouse, total, from then on.
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:23 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Larry Brown,

Good to see you posting again, hope all is well in your neck of the woods. Both the Grouse & Woodcock hunting have been great here in Potter/Tioga, Pa this season.

Got a new Gordon Setter pup from Clearcut Kennels, can't wait till next season to get her into the Grouse woods and do a little training. Named her Pine Creek Shadow.

All the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

[URL=http://www.jpgbox.com/page/55620_800x600/] [/URL]

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kgb
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:47 am  Reply with quote
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Looks like you got a sweetheart there, Dave!

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:31 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

kgb,

Thanks much buddy, Shadow is a hand full right now for sure!

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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hayseed
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:16 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 14 Feb 2017
Posts: 401

Pine Creek/Dave wrote:
PP,

For those looking for a little true knowledge on Grouse hunting, habitat and forests
Dennis Walrod has a good book out which covers a lot of questions.

[URL=http://www.jpgbox.com/page/55454_800x600/] [/URL]


I just picked up this book on ebay. Looking forward to reading it. Hope it still applies to grouse hunting today.
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:16 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

hayseed,

Walrords book is definitely right up to modern era Grouse hunting, lots of great accurate truthful information, about Grouse and Grouse hunting. You will find out in the book why having your dog always out in front, is not a good Grouse hunting tactic. Grouse hunting is not a game, George Ryman told people his dogs could teach a person how to Grouse hunt, you will read why in Walrod's book. Read how Grouse really live and why your dog will end up working big circles that become figure 8's. Lots of great true accurate info for Grouse hunting in his book.

I recommend it highly.

Pine Creek/Dave
Owner - Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers

Owning an exceptional Grouse Dog is truly a Gift from God.

[URL=http://www.jpgbox.com/page/55638_800x600/] [/URL]

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