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16'er
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:03 am  Reply with quote
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Is there anything specifically problematic with tightening an action which has a dolls head extension fitted to the rib?

I need another project gun in the safe like I need a 4ga punt gun, but for some reason I'm contemplating a vintage gun that needs some attention, again..

Action has some play, and would need attention. But it has a Doll's Head extension, and was wondering if that complicates the process. Gun is very slightly off face.
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skeettx
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:22 am  Reply with quote
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Are you going for the forever fix or the shoot and have fun fix?

For the latter, I use a brass shim, takes about 10 minutes and the gun
is up shooting on face and smiling

Mike

interesting to watch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXbrmmiSngw

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707PS
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:17 pm  Reply with quote



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Great video Mike --------- Thanks
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Flues16
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:50 pm  Reply with quote
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16'er wrote:
Is there anything specifically problematic with tightening an action which has a dolls head extension fitted to the rib?

I need another project gun in the safe like I need a 4ga punt gun, but for some reason I'm contemplating a vintage gun that needs some attention, again..

Action has some play, and would need attention. But it has a Doll's Head extension, and was wondering if that complicates the process. Gun is very slightly off face.

I doubt if the doll's head extension would necessarily complicate the tightening process more than a gun with a simple rib extension, but I'd like to hear what some of the gunsmiths here on the forum say.

I don't know if you need another project gun or not, but maybe you should think about that 4-gauge punt gun. It could really be useful on those Rappahannock River ducks! Laughing

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dannypratt
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:54 pm  Reply with quote
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Apparently fine gun making and repair requires you wail the tar out of some fine mill work....

I'm not going to argue the guys method, hes the old crusty English dude with the fancy wooden handles tools....and he surely charges plenty for it when he does it.

Seems odd to be wailing the tar out of hard steel to reform it, then filing it down to fit again...seems to me it would weaken it.

If you did that with copper water pipe, then turned the water back on at typical 45-60psi, youd have a leak in minutes.

I wonder what 6 months of Winchester AA target loads would do to that fix...

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scraggley
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:03 am  Reply with quote
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The brass shim treatment works and can be replaced ! Cheap also! Never had a dolls head shotgun but my 12ga nitro hunter dbl responds well to the brass shim treatment! Do not recall how many shell have gone through this repaired gun but must be several boxes and its only slightly looser. May put a new shim in today if I have a min or two between snow blowing!


Art

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byrdog
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:11 am  Reply with quote
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I prefer to replace the joint pin with the correct over sized drill rod. The shim repair is also workable as long as you know the little thing is in there. I have had them fall out during cleaning and had to make another on the fly. A bit of soda can often is just enough to take up the slack.

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16'er
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:31 am  Reply with quote
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dannypratt wrote:
Apparently fine gun making and repair requires you wail the tar out of some fine mill work....

I'm not going to argue the guys method, hes the old crusty English dude with the fancy wooden handles tools....and he surely charges plenty for it when he does it.

Seems odd to be wailing the tar out of hard steel to reform it, then filing it down to fit again...seems to me it would weaken it.

If you did that with copper water pipe, then turned the water back on at typical 45-60psi, youd have a leak in minutes.

I wonder what 6 months of Winchester AA target loads would do to that fix...


Some cringe factor watching that video for me as well. Thinking about it, I'd guess there is some work hardening that makes this 'adjustment process' have some stability over time.

-

I'm most likely going to try to purchase the gun in question, start with shimming the hook/pin interface and see how it handles/shoots for me. Then I'll know if further investment would be warranted. Thanks for the replies!
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steve f
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:18 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 02 Nov 2015
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There can be different points of wear that causes the looseness. I had a Sauer Daly that was about .003" loose, the issue was uneven wear on forward edge of the sliding underbolt where it contacted the barrel lump. Welding a sliver of metal, and polishing to get the right fit solved the issue. The fit on the doll's head was fine before and after and the gun was tight and on face.

I had a second gun that was sloppy loose, about .012" and it required welding onto the barrel hook and filing to get the right fit. A Greener crossbolt was involved and I was told it was somewhat difficult to get the crossbolt to fit flush, but it looked fine after the work was finished. The gun locked up tight as a bank vault with no play at all.

I like Jack Rowe's practical approach in the videos, filing and polishing that barrel lump afterwards made for a neat and professional job. With Jack's passing a few years back, the pool of knowledge about the repair of double guns was greatly diminished.
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byrdog
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:59 am  Reply with quote
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Welding the hook can be dicey on soldered barrels. I have a technique where part of the preparation is to put wet rags in the first half of the barrels, place a sheet metal shield over the lumps covering the flats after spraying the chamber end with spatter release. the whole deal goes in a vise with a welding jig. The weld is made with .o28 steel wire in argon. the weld is started on the jig run across the hook and over to the other side of the jig. after it cools the jig plates are ground off with a dremmel tool. then the filing begins one stroke at a time until the gun just starts to close. this is a lot of work and time. the new joint pin is easier and just as good

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UncleDanFan
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:50 am  Reply with quote
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16'er wrote:
Is there anything specifically problematic with tightening an action which has a dolls head extension fitted to the rib?


No.

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16'er
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:17 pm  Reply with quote
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1908 Sauer hammer gun in hand now. 5.9lbs. Very Happy
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steve f
PostPosted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:20 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 02 Nov 2015
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16'er wrote:
1908 Sauer hammer gun in hand now. 5.9lbs. Very Happy


Post pics when you get a chance!
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16'er
PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:08 pm  Reply with quote
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steve f wrote:
16'er wrote:
1908 Sauer hammer gun in hand now. 5.9lbs. Very Happy


Post pics when you get a chance!


Will try to post a couple of initial pics tomorrow if I get by the office.
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16'er
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:05 pm  Reply with quote
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Poor lighted pics. Needs some love, for sure... Right-side lock likely needs a spring replaced.
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