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double vision
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 4:17 pm  Reply with quote
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#3 in 8's
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kgb
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:25 pm  Reply with quote
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Dave Erickson wrote:
#3 in 8's


Agreed, i'd start there for clays. I have a double with one Cyl choke, two repeaters with Cyl chokes, have hunted and shot Skeet with each.

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UncleDanFan
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:42 pm  Reply with quote
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My damascus Lefever 12 is cyl/imp mod, and it is a fantastic pheasant gun where the first shot is close, and a good snipe gun too, except I have to use bismuth, which gets expensive.

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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:39 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2124
Location: Hudson,Wy

For target practice, go light. Now for actual bird hunting the situation is a bit interesting. The lack of choke makes for lack of pattern density and keep in mind that this is a short range gun no matter what. However, a few things can maximize what it will do.

First off, go light on shot size. For example, I normally like 5 shot for pheasants, but since the pattern is going to spread and deteriorate quickly, I back down to 6's to fill in pattern gaps. Sure those shot sizes don't pack as much wallop, but they will cleanly kill birds further out in this case since 5's would pattern patchy and unreliable much sooner.

Another thing that helps is using a heavy shot charge. It's ironic. I normally don't like magnums since they deform more shot; the fliers and stringing work against you at longer ranges. But once again, we aren't shooting long range with Cylinder bore. As a result, we are dealing with distances where shot stringing hasn't gotten out of hand yet.

One final trick is to use buffered loads with very hard magnum shot. You can control this by loading your own. With factory ammo, you sometimes have to guess as to how hard the shot really is (copper and nickel plated offerings are sometimes just soft chilled lead underneath). The pattern board will tell the truth. A good buffered load will allow your Cylinder bore to shoot patterns like an I/C. So will steel shot and the harder tungsten alloys. Load the tighter patterning ammo in one barrel and regular fodder in the other and it's like having two chokes.

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last dollar
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:51 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Jul 2008
Posts: 765
Location: Great State of Kansas

Chokes are over rated. My Jeff is Cylinder and Full....I shoot quail with it, and everything else including Geese and Turkeys....Know the gun and the range and use common sense...
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JonP
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 4:51 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 694
Location: MN

You will find that different commercial loads will pattern differently. Just pick the load that fits your needs.
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wahoo
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:58 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Posts: 345

I've heard that using "fiber" wads is like adding one choke size to a normal wad. Will give that a try as well. There has been mention on this thread of using "steel" or tungsten for tighter pattern in the cylinder bore. I assume that's only recommended to try in a modern/contemporary bbl. Given the gun I going to be working up is a vintage gun, even with a cylinder bore, is not prudent to put steel through that bbl right? The forcing cones could still be harmed couldn't they?

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1929 Thomas Bland 16ga SxS 28"
1947 Browning A5 16ga 28"
1948 BRNO 16ga SxS 27.5"
1949 Stevens 530 16ga SxS 28"
1950 Stevens 311A 12ga SxS 30"
1952 BRNO 12ga SxS 28.25"
1963 Superposed O/U 12ga 27"
1968 V Bernardelli SxS 12ga 28"
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wahoo
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:03 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Posts: 345

UncleDanFan wrote:
My damascus Lefever 12 is cyl/imp mod, and it is a fantastic pheasant gun where the first shot is close, and a good snipe gun too, except I have to use bismuth, which gets expensive.


I'm employing bismuth for puddle ducks. Will give it a try in the cyl bore too. I don't get many shots off anyway, so cost wouldn't be overly painful. Just have to remember to order it up when in stock.

_________________
1929 Thomas Bland 16ga SxS 28"
1947 Browning A5 16ga 28"
1948 BRNO 16ga SxS 27.5"
1949 Stevens 530 16ga SxS 28"
1950 Stevens 311A 12ga SxS 30"
1952 BRNO 12ga SxS 28.25"
1963 Superposed O/U 12ga 27"
1968 V Bernardelli SxS 12ga 28"
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PatrickB
PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:12 pm  Reply with quote
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wahoo wrote:
I've heard that using "fiber" wads is like adding one choke size to a normal wad. Will give that a try as well. There has been mention on this thread of using "steel" or tungsten for tighter pattern in the cylinder bore. I assume that's only recommended to try in a modern/contemporary bbl. Given the gun I going to be working up is a vintage gun, even with a cylinder bore, is not prudent to put steel through that bbl right? The forcing cones could still be harmed couldn't they?


You have it backwards as plastic wads, not fiber, usually produce a tighter pattern in a vintage gun. You'll need to test some loads to answer your question. If you reload there are some tricks as WyoChukar has referenced.
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double vision
PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 6:26 am  Reply with quote
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PatrickB wrote:
wahoo wrote:
I've heard that using "fiber" wads is like adding one choke size to a normal wad. Will give that a try as well. There has been mention on this thread of using "steel" or tungsten for tighter pattern in the cylinder bore. I assume that's only recommended to try in a modern/contemporary bbl. Given the gun I going to be working up is a vintage gun, even with a cylinder bore, is not prudent to put steel through that bbl right? The forcing cones could still be harmed couldn't they?


You have it backwards as plastic wads, not fiber, usually produce a tighter pattern in a vintage gun. You'll need to test some loads to answer your question. If you reload there are some tricks as WyoChukar has referenced.


I used to believe this, and I guess I still do, but I've been shooting some fibre wad Gamebore loads and man do they ever pattern tight. It's counterintuitive to me, but these threw remarkably tight patterns in a cylinder choked 12 I owned.
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John Singer
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:11 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 03 Sep 2014
Posts: 398
Location: Rochester, MN

Here is choke observation for you to digest.

Larger shot tends to pattern tighter through a given choke than does smaller shot. In my experience, this is especially true for steel shot.

It happens that the left barrel of my 16 Stevens SxS has a more open choke than the right barrel.

I have found that by using larger shot in the left barrel, I end up with nearly identical pattern sizes.

My right barrel is modified and the left is nearly improved cylinder. Long story, regulation issue.

For ducks, I use #3 steel in the right barrel and #1 or #2 in the left.

For pheasants, it is #4 in the right and #3 in the left.

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jschultz
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:22 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 1624
Location: northwewst Wyoming

Dave wrote
PatrickB wrote:
wahoo wrote:
I've heard that using "fiber" wads is like adding one choke size to a normal wad. Will give that a try as well. There has been mention on this thread of using "steel" or tungsten for tighter pattern in the cylinder bore. I assume that's only recommended to try in a modern/contemporary bbl. Given the gun I going to be working up is a vintage gun, even with a cylinder bore, is not prudent to put steel through that bbl right? The forcing cones could still be harmed couldn't they?


You have it backwards as plastic wads, not fiber, usually produce a tighter pattern in a vintage gun. You'll need to test some loads to answer your question. If you reload there are some tricks as WyoChukar has referenced.


I used to believe this, and I guess I still do, but I've been shooting some fibre wad Gamebore loads and man do they ever pattern tight. It's counterintuitive to me, but these threw remarkably tight patterns in a cylinder choked 12 I owned.



I have discovered via my pattern board that card & fiber wads gives my best patterns.
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tramroad28
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:48 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 625
Location: Ohio..where ruffed grouse were

I shoot one gun with C - IC...works ok if I make the right decisions in pulling the trigger, or not.
Choke is best considered as a range of values and a hope, to me.
Cylinder-ish can help with confidence....we all think too much.

Shotshell start?...cheap 8s.

Wad, shot, powder, velocity, primer, who patterns how well, shoelaces and a couple of really less important factors affect patterns.
Any factor alone could affect patterns....could.

Barrel particulars can make a difference with singular card/fiber wad performance...imo.
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wahoo
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:47 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Posts: 345

John Singer wrote:
Here is choke observation for you to digest.

Larger shot tends to pattern tighter through a given choke than does smaller shot. In my experience, this is especially true for steel shot.

It happens that the left barrel of my 16 Stevens SxS has a more open choke than the right barrel.

I have found that by using larger shot in the left barrel, I end up with nearly identical pattern sizes.

My right barrel is modified and the left is nearly improved cylinder. Long story, regulation issue.

For ducks, I use #3 steel in the right barrel and #1 or #2 in the left.

For pheasants, it is #4 in the right and #3 in the left.


Mr Singer, may I inquire what year of Mfr is your Stevens that you mentioned above using steel for duck? I have an old Stevens too which I would like to use on duck as well, but am concerned that the steel shot is a no no in the older bbl. It does seem very robust though, and I'm will to give it a go.

_________________
1929 Thomas Bland 16ga SxS 28"
1947 Browning A5 16ga 28"
1948 BRNO 16ga SxS 27.5"
1949 Stevens 530 16ga SxS 28"
1950 Stevens 311A 12ga SxS 30"
1952 BRNO 12ga SxS 28.25"
1963 Superposed O/U 12ga 27"
1968 V Bernardelli SxS 12ga 28"
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John Singer
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:35 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 03 Sep 2014
Posts: 398
Location: Rochester, MN

wahoo wrote:


Mr Singer, may I inquire what year of Mfr is your Stevens that you mentioned above using steel for duck? I have an old Stevens too which I would like to use on duck as well, but am concerned that the steel shot is a no no in the older bbl. It does seem very robust though, and I'm will to give it a go.


The gun is "old".

I would estimate its year of manufacture in the 1940s. It is Wards Hercules Model 50 that is Stamped: 5100.

The original chokes were modified and full. When I purchased it at a garage sale, the left/full choke barrel did not shoot to point of aim. I opened it some with an adjustable ream to relieve the choke for steel and to "English" it some.

It still did not shoot to point of aim, so I spent two hours with a rotary stone and brass hammer and pattern board regulating the barrel.

It now shoots very well. It is my go to gun for ducks and pheasants with steel shot. I even killed several geese with it using #1 steel.

I have no problem shooting steel shot through older guns as long as the chokes are modified or more open.

If someone gives me any grief about it, I tell them that it is my gun and I get to play with it as I want to.

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